Toilet syphon replacement

[stratplus]

Hi all,
Need to replace my toilet syphon in an armitage toilet. I measured from the bottom of the internal cistern to the very top of the syphon. This was roughly 275mm which is pretty much 11". Is this the size I need to buy? They come in all different sizes 7,8,9 (litres or inches).
It is a 9 litre cistern (water level is st the 9 litre mark). I don't want to order a 11" syphon to find I can't get the cistern lid back on.
Other options I see are to replace with a fluidmaster or a Dudley turbo 88 which are adjustable To me it depends on the lever action on the handle, surely this dictates the size of syphon.

Thanks for reading

 

[lame plumber]

answered your own question already old son

 

[rocketmanbkk]

Dudley turbo 88

 

[Aquazone]

Dudley turbo 88

Seconded, dont think theres many regular cisterns out there that this wont fit, and if there is, Ive never found one.

Also come apart without removing cistern next time diaphragm splits

 

[ShaunCorbs]

but get the adjustable one will cater for any level

 

[Best]

If you had have fitted a lower syphon (sometimes if no overflow fitted) and the wire link was then too short, you just need to replace with a longer link. I keep a few brand new and second hand stainless steel links as spares.
Just be careful if your Armitage toilet is the old type, as it might be double syphonic and have an Airex screwed to bottom of Syphon.

 

[rpm]

Good point, the dreaded Syphonic toilet.

 

[Best]

Good point, the dreaded Syphonic toilet.

I have an Armitage Syphonic toilet in my own house which is over 40 years old. Only thing I ever had to do was replace the small Airex washer a couple years ago.
I like it and prefer the internal bowl part in pan because it is raised.
But very easy for someone unaware of what type of toilet it is, to remove the cistern a little and snap the Airex. Armitage loos must have an Armitage syphon to go with their brand of Airex, because it has a slightly wider diameter. The smaller 8" Armitage syphon will also work fine.
If I was the OP, I would just repair the original syphon. Just usually needs a washer. I rarely have to replace syphons, although the 2 part are handy for the future

 

[SimonG]

The rolls royce of toilets the syphonic. Even better is the fact there are few people who know how to fix them

 

[Best]

The rolls royce of toilets the syphonic. Even better is the fact there are few people who know how to fix them

Very true. That's what I love to work on, - something most plumbers and diyers don't/won't work on and then I look like I am an expert!
:smug: £££££
It is about time I charged plenty for such jobs.

 

[stratplus]

The turbo 88 only seems to be available in 7.5-9.5". Tha current syphon measures 11" from top to bottom. Is this likely to work.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

The turbo 88 only seems to be available in 7.5-9.5". Tha current syphon measures 11" from top to bottom. Is this likely to work.

look at the adjustable one

Syphon, dual flush syphon, toilet siphon - Dudley Turbo 88.

9.5L is 11 " from the bottom to the top/ overflow part

 

[stratplus]

look at the adjustable one

Syphon, dual flush syphon, toilet siphon - Dudley Turbo 88.

9.5L is 11 " from the bottom to the top/ overflow part

The 9.5 adjustable goes from 191-241mm. 275mm is 11". That link says the max it adjusts to is 241mm which I think is 9.5" not litres.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

The 9.5 adjustable goes from 191-241mm. 275mm is 11". That link says the max it adjusts to is 241mm which I think is 9.5" not litres.

where are you measuring from bottom to water finished level?

if you want to wait till tomorrow i can measure one for you but 80% sure it will fit

 

[Best]

In my experience of where I had to fit a lower Syphon, I find the normal water level is still achievable about the same. The 11" high syphons were well above the water line.
In fact, the lower syphon will begin to flush quicker and much easier when handle is pushed down because it now only requires a shorter lift of water inside the lower syphon to start the flush

 

[Best]

I read the Dudley turbo 88 is 29.2cm high

 

[JCplumb]

In my experience of where I had to fit a lower Syphon, I find the normal water level is still achievable about the same. The 11" high syphons were well above the water line.
In fact, the lower syphon will begin to flush quicker and much easier when handle is pushed down because it now only requires a shorter lift of water inside the lower syphon to start the flush

Exactly that.
Doesn't matter how high the old syphon is as long as the water level is below the new syphons water line it'll be fine and different length c-links will make sure the handle can still settle roughly horizontal.

 

[JCplumb]

The 9.5 adjustable goes from 191-241mm. 275mm is 11". That link says the max it adjusts to is 241mm which I think is 9.5" not litres.

Snowhead measured a couple for me in a thread last year, here's his findings:

I've just measured a 9" as 10.3/4" maximum height including washer on the bottom to where the screw goes in.

From Dudleys website, bottom of page; Syphon, dual flush syphon, toilet siphon - Dudley Turbo 88.

254mm 10" part no.313879
That'll be 11.3/4" in real terms.

 

[stratplus]

Thank you to all who have contributed. Been a great help and is much appreciated!! )

 

[Allgoode]

Ooops.

Just changed one of these today and fitted a Fluidmaster cistern kit to the cistern with flush lever.

The old one was knackered as the customer had adjusted and fettled with it over the years and finally managed to shear the part of the syphon that the linkage goes onto.

Fluidmaster dual flush kit with the cistern handle flush lever fitted no probs and all operates correctly and the flushes are more efficient than the previous setup.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

dudley version,only type i have come across Dudley siphon air extractor siphonic toilet syphonic aspirator syphon bomb syvac | eBay

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Here you go did two

First on is on max with the siphon on its lowest part (eg not much water left in once flushed)



And the second is max with about an inch left in once flushed



Hope these help

 

[stratplus]

Here you go did two

First on is on max with the siphon on its lowest part (eg not much water left in once flushed)

View attachment 25888

And the second is max with about an inch left in once flushed

View attachment 25889

Hope these help

Thanks for taking the time to do that Shaun
Do you know what size syphons they were, I take it they are both different syphons.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Thanks for taking the time to do that Shaun
Do you know what size syphons they were, I take it they are both different syphons.

adjustable one only one i use

 

[gassafe]

I don't bother measuring them now, just fit a bog standard universal siphon from screwfix! 4 quid & never gone back to one!

 

[thereisawizza]

FYI all, siphons are not measured in overall height but from the inside bottom of the cistern to the crown (spillover level).

No that it really matters nowadays due to the Dudley adjustable anyway! Useless info for y'all!!

 

[stratplus]

adjustable one only one i use

Shaun so those pictures are of one adjustable syphon?
So whenever you replace a syphon this adjustable one is the one you always use?
I've searched and looked at so many different syphons/manufacturers recently, do you always buy that same one or are there others sizes they do (or is it one size fits all with the turbo 88)?

 

[stratplus]

FYI all, siphons are not measured in overall height but from the inside bottom of the cistern to the crown (spillover level).

No that it really matters nowadays due to the Dudley adjustable anyway! Useless info for y'all!!

Yeah, saw that somewhere. That's one of the reasons I started this thread. Been interesting.

 

[stratplus]

Ooops.

Just changed one of these today and fitted a Fluidmaster cistern kit to the cistern with flush lever.

The old one was knackered as the customer had adjusted and fettled with it over the years and finally managed to shear the part of the syphon that the linkage goes onto.

Fluidmaster dual flush kit with the cistern handle flush lever fitted no probs and all operates correctly and the flushes are more efficient than the previous setup.

Cheers,

Andy

Looked at these in plum centre. Look good, just the plastic handle puts me off where you have a metal one originally.
looks like you can replace the handle with a push button one too as long as the flush is not on the side of the cistern.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Shaun so those pictures are of one adjustable syphon?
So whenever you replace a syphon this adjustable one is the one you always use?
I've searched and looked at so many different syphons/manufacturers recently, do you always buy that same one or are there others sizes they do (or is it one size fits all with the turbo 88)?

Yes it's the only one I use they last very well in a commercial environment

 

[stratplus]

Shaun, got the Dudley adjustable, instructions mention on a close coupled cistern that the 50mm threaded tail should be trimmed to 2mm beyond the backnut when fitted to the cistern. Is this necessary? Will the cistern not fit to the pan if it is not trimmed?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

never trimmed one myself just always test before hand (with donut washer off)

 

[rickymuckets]

All plumbers should guarantee their work, including the parts. Many warranties cover the plumber's work for up to one year. If the plumber refuses to guarantee his or her work, move on.


professional plumber Sussex County NJ

 

[ShaunCorbs]

All plumbers should guarantee their work, including the parts. Many warranties cover the plumber's work for up to one year. If the plumber refuses to guarantee his or her work, move on.


professional plumber Sussex County NJ

Including parts that's a joke parts have a manufacturer warrenty and not with the plumber,

Plumber warrents the Pipework / accessories etcs

 

[rpm]

All plumbers should guarantee their work, including the parts. Many warranties cover the plumber's work for up to one year. If the plumber refuses to guarantee his or her work, move on.


professional plumber Sussex County NJ

New Jersey, USA ?