Todays fun

[kyle]

Hi all,
Just wondered how many people knew about performing an 'ambient air assessment'.
I came across this with my engineer today, never heard anything about this in college.
We had readings of between 80 and 150ppm every min, appliance was ID.

 

[oldplumber]

to do a air sample test, I'd prefer to be wearing breathing apparatus that way I'd be alive to do another. why are ops moaning about having to do addtional quals and slagging off the system. Personally if I come across anything over 10ppm Im out of there. Anything approaching 30ppm and everyone out, callout the blue light boys and their ba to turn it all off, not my problem. CO kills, no second chances, just cos your anton can do a 15 minute rom test, doesnt mean yu have to go in there and do it, unless your totally nuts. The best thing the engineer could have done is to have stuck his probe in the flue as he did, proved it was id and turned off the boiler and capped it off, what was the point of putting 2 people at risk in the first place?? by doing a test he didnt need to and probably wasnt trained to do.

I also note some ops saying you only need to do pressure check and gas rate on older boilers, thats ok but why not do a flue analysis if you can and that way youve covered your six and got a print off to prove youve done a decent service and it is all ok? seems stupid not to, omho

 

[stevetheplumber]

my beef is with having to do the fga as a seperate module to boilers it should be incorperated with boilers i assume this was the price of amalamating boilers and water heaters cant have the parasitic training industry struggling like the rest of us
no doubt by next year we will also have to take a seperate module to use footprints no difference there a tool we use to fit a boiler so why not a seperate module

 

[oldplumber]

I would presume that as cpa1 is relatively new, most established rgis would object to taking cpa1 along with say cen1 / boilers just to add to their tickets at an accordingly higher cost. I would hope in a couple of years they would combine the 2 as theyve just done with the ones you mention. mind you its probably as not many of us bother with water heaters any more thatr they have combined the 2

 

[CMairiD]

I can't see them adding CPA1 to CEN1/CENWAT because the FGAs can be used on other appliances. Personally, I'd rather they combine CPA1 and CMDDA1 (the soon to be released atmospheric room testing) modules.

 

[gbgas001]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]This is training for CPA1[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Carrying out a room test for carbon monoxide with a Combustion Analyser. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]General [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]1. Position an open ended sampling probe approximately 2 m above floor level in the centre of the room and at least 1 m away from any suspect appliance installation. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]2. Close all external doors, windows and customer adjustable ventilation. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]3. Record the level of CO over a 15 min period. If the indoor level of CO starts to rise during this period, check for CO migration from other sources. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]4. If there is no rise then proceed to test the appliance. [/FONT]
[/FONT]Room sealed and open flued appliances
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Operate the appliance at full rate until the CO reading stabilizes or begins to fall, whichever occurs first. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Cookers [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Ensure that all permanent ventilation to the space in which the appliance is situated is unobstructed. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Place a saucepan on each of the pan-supports above the two largest hotplate burners and put approximately a litre of water in each and cover with a lid. Use a saucepan with a flat base and a base diameter of between 160 mm and 220 mm. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Place the grill pan in its highest position under the grill. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Open/operate the customer adjustable ventilation in accordance with the cooker manufacturer’s instructions, e.g. window or extractor fan. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Light the grill, oven and the two hotplate burners at their maximum setting. Turn the oven down to gas mark 5 (or mid-range if not calibrated in gas mark numbers). [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Record the CO levels at 1 min intervals. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Turn the hotplate burners down to simmer when the water boils. Turn the grill off after 30 min. [/FONT]
[/FONT]If during the test the CO reading:
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]begins to fall without exceeding 30 ppm, stop the test; the installation and cooker are satisfactory; [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]does not exceed 30 ppm for longer than 20 min and begins to fall and does not exceed 90 ppm at any time, stop the test; the installation and cooker are satisfactory; [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Exceeds 90 ppm at any time, stop the test, ventilate the room, identify the cause, rectify and repeat the test. [/FONT][/FONT]
Flueless water heaters
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Ensure that all permanent ventilation to the space in which the appliance is situated is unobstructed. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Close all customer adjustable ventilation to the space in which the appliance is situated. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Light the appliance and operate it at maximum gas rate for 5 min recording the CO levels at 1 min intervals. [/FONT][/FONT]
Flueless space heaters
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Ensure that all permanent ventilation to the space in which the appliance is situated is unobstructed. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Close all customer adjustable ventilation to the space in which the appliance is situated. [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Light the appliance and operate it at maximum gas rate for 30 min recording the CO levels at 1 min intervals. [/FONT][/FONT]


gb-gas
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[yo1]

I think the point of the ambient test is if your responding to smell of fumes or suspected co in the property. Maybe not the only reason though.

 

[Reg Man]

Hi,
Well it was a landlords check, Glow-worm fuelsaver 30b mk 2 in kitchen. This was natural draught room sealed and was 310 mm away from an openable window ( to the sde ), should have been a minimum of 400mm from side. Section 8.4 in the GIUSP outlines the requirements. My engineer wasn't entirely sure so checked with someone who knew the procedure. Basically he had to open the window, operate the boiler at full rate ( 10.99kw) and take readings of CO every minute for a total of 15 minutes. The maximum allowable CO reading should be 10ppm. We had readings from 80 to 150ppm. This was classed as ID. He stuck the probe in the natural draught terminal just out of curiosity and the analyser ( one click ) displayed HIGH for the next 3 hours and wouldn't turn off..its working ok now ( Think the ratio reading was .0456 just before it packed in).
So thats it really, I take it that its not a common occurance?

Not a common occurance? if no one is doing ambient checks who knows. Unfortunately CPA1 does not cover this in any significant detail.

The bitter pill and question is: How many engineers out there no how to deal effectively in accorrdance with BS7967 parts 1,2,3,4 a reported smell of fumes when turning up at a potential incident property?

I am hearing a few negative comments about this, especialy training wise. But any of us could find ourselves walking into a potential CO incident situation, and unless we know how to deal with it properly, we could end up in serious doodoo.

 

[PlumbingSucks]

what do you actually need cpa1 for? i asked the GS inspector when he came out to me and even he didn't know.

 

[Reg Man]

CPA1 is tip of the ice berg. Lots more to come with proceedures relating dealing to a report of fumes for the every day gas men.