Singing noise related to water pump

[benawhile]

Since our central heating system was upgraded in October we have noticed a singing noise in the house when the water circulating pump switches on. It is a new Grundfos UPS2 15-50/60 pump with 3 speeds. Reducing the speed reduces the noise but it doesn't go away, and we need to use the maximum speed to heat the house effectively.

The noise sounds like a musical tuning fork. It comes from any part of the house where there are pipes or radiators, as well as from the pump, but is not easy to pinpoint. It is not loud, just annoying. How loud it is depends on where you are in the room and what direction your head is turned. It is as though the noise from the pump transmits to the water everywhere in the system.

The system works well otherwise, there are no other clues, although there is a slight unrelated whistling from the boiler flue which is being investigated.

A Magnaclean filter was fitted and has removed about a cupful of black rust already.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

try shutting one trv at a time off unit the noise is gone

 

[SimonG]

What did the upgrade consist of?

Was the system balanced afterwards?

 

[benawhile]

try shutting one trv at a time off unit the noise is gone

That is a very interesting suggestion and I will try it. There are 6 rads in the system, plus two others that are in an unused and uninsulated conservatory that are always shut off. There is no bypass as yet, so what is the max no of rads I can shut off at once?

 

[benawhile]

What did the upgrade consist of?

Was the system balanced afterwards?

Original system was about 30 yrs old at least, no time switch, one thermostat operating one pump. 5 rads, hwc, open vent, one Rayburn coal fired boiler. It had been unused for at least two winters.

Our "upgrade" last October was to replace the boiler with an Intergas boiler, plumbed in at a different location on exterior wall, but retaining the open vent, and add a timer, new pump and magnaclean filter, and add a radiator to the kitchen where the Rayburn was.

It probably hasn't been very well balanced as some of the balance valves are still seized. They look as though they are all full open. We have already removed about a cupful of sludge from the Magnaclean. In December we found air in the top half of the upstairs radiators and bled it out and it has not re-appeared yet.

 

[chris watkins]

A 15/60 on max, feeding 8 rads, there has got to be a problem there with restricted pipes.

 

[townfanjon]

When the pump was changed, were the pump valves changed or just closed .

 

[Welder]

Did the installer have an apprentice who was a 'The Voice' contestant who got left under the floorboards?

 

[townfanjon]

Just noticed this post on PH mate , on here is the right place for plumbing and heating advice , as regards advice off PH on said advice , do yourself a favour and use us .

 

[Pickwickpick]

Just noticed this post on PH mate , on here is the right place for plumbing and heating advice , as regards advice off PH on said advice , do yourself a favour and use us .

What's PH?

 

[benawhile]

When the pump was changed, were the pump valves changed or just closed .

New valves as well

 

[benawhile]

What's PH?

Piston Heads, car forum

 

[benawhile]

A 15/60 on max, feeding 8 rads, there has got to be a problem there with restricted pipes.

Maybe I mislead you about using max setting. The no 2 setting works OK, but the noise is still irritating.

 

[fixitflav]

Grundfos UPS2 15-50/60 pump

May be irrelevant, but I don't think that's a Grundfos model. It's either a UPS 15-50 (older model) or a UPS2 (later). Does it have a knob to turn to change speed, or a touch pad (with an LED)?

 

[rpm]

Just noticed this post on PH mate , on here is the right place for plumbing and heating advice , as regards advice off PH on said advice , do yourself a favour and use us .

That`s not the only other forum it is on jon.

 

[townfanjon]

That`s not the only other forum it is on jon.

Just saw it last night , I dont use Ph that much , its a huge forum , I can tell by a lot of the answers who is a genuine plumber / heat engineer etc , but loads chip in with their opinions and are bloody pathetic. Thats why I told the OP to use here.

 

[benawhile]

May be irrelevant, but I don't think that's a Grundfos model. It's either a UPS 15-50 (older model) or a UPS2 (later). Does it have a knob to turn to change speed, or a touch pad (with an LED)?

The label says Grundfos UPS2, so surely it must be a Grundfos? It has a touch pad speed control

 

[rpm]

Pathetic as you say mate, forums all over, this one included is full of ultracrepidarians! Starting to put me off forums so much I might take another holiday soon.

 

[rpm]

The label says Grundfos UPS2, so surely it must be a Grundfos? It has a touch pad speed control

Yep Grundfos.

 

[benawhile]

That`s not the only other forum it is on jon.

Hope that's not a problem posting on more than one forum. I can usually get a good feel for which are the best opinions, (specially by multi posting!) . I have had the best responses from this one, Ultimate handyman is good too.

 

[rpm]

Hope that's not a problem posting on more than one forum. I can usually get a good feel for which are the best opinions, (specially by multi posting!) . I have had the best responses from this one, Ultimate handyman is good too.

Nah your fine mate, whatever you wanna do to get the answer, jon was advising you no more than that.

 

[townfanjon]

Ultimate handyman is good too.

Post as much as you like pal .
Surely you are better using a pro forum with qualified genuine guys that a handman forum .

 

[townfanjon]

ultracrepidarians! .

You get a thesaurus too

 

[rpm]

You get a thesaurus too

Nah, tbh I saw it posted on another forum over christmas by a disgruntled member and I thought "I`m nicking that!"

 

[Pickwickpick]

Nah, tbh I saw it posted on another forum over christmas by a disgruntled member and I thought "I`m nicking that!"

Its an epic word tbf, was thinking I should nick it too after I googled its meaning earlier

 

[fixitflav]

The label says Grundfos UPS2, so surely it must be a Grundfos? It has a touch pad speed control

Yes, it's a Grundfos, but a UPS2, not a Grundfos 15-50/60. You had it down as both!

 

[rpm]

Yes, it's a Grundfos, but a UPS2, not a Grundfos 15-50/60. You had it down as both!

UPS2 15-50/60 circulator pump - heating, cooling, hot water

 

[fixitflav]

UPS2 15-50/60 circulator pump - heating, cooling, hot water

Thanks for that. Not for the first time, I stand corrected . I always thought the UPS2 was just called that, the older one being the UPS 15-50/60.
I installed a UPS2 early last year and the instruction booklet doesn't mention 15-50/60, just UPS2.

 

[Welder]

Thanks for that. Not for the first time, I stand corrected . I always thought the UPS2 was just called that, the older one being the UPS 15-50/60.
I installed a UPS2 early last year and the instruction booklet doesn't mention 15-50/60, just UPS2.

That's the beauty of UKPF vs the likes of Twitter or Facebook FIF.
Sooo much friendlier & forgiving of honest misunderstandings and mistakes.
I adore learning on here, you can do it and no one, mostly , criticises.

 

[benawhile]

Thanks for that. Not for the first time, I stand corrected . I always thought the UPS2 was just called that, the older one being the UPS 15-50/60.
I installed a UPS2 early last year and the instruction booklet doesn't mention 15-50/60, just UPS2.[/QUOTE
Was going to post a picture of the label but assume not needed now!

 

[fixitflav]

Was going to post a picture of the label but assume not needed now!

That's right. As I said, I doubt it would be relevant to your problem anyway.
BTW, have you managed to cure it?

 

[benawhile]

Will need a week or two to try options and discuss with installer thanks

 

[benawhile]

Problem solved. Singing noise completely gone. Plumber replaced the Grundfos with a DAB 40-70/130. Whether the Grundfos was faulty or there was an incompatibility with my system we will never know. Thanks for all support.

 

[chris watkins]

Problem solved. Singing noise completely gone. Plumber replaced the Grundfos with a DAB 40-70/130. Whether the Grundfos was faulty or there was an incompatibility with my system we will never know. Thanks for all support.

Interesting & nothing else was done to the system ?

Thanks for letting us know as others may come across the same thing.

 

[benawhile]

Nothing else done according to the plumber.

 

[fixitflav]

Interesting & nothing else was done to the system ?

Thanks for letting us know as others may come across the same thing.

Interesting, as you say!
I used to think Grundfos were the best pumps going, wouldn't have anything else, but a doubt or 2 is creeping in. The original UPS 15-50/60 I believe was made for 30-odd years, but the UPS2 only 2-3 before being superseded by the UPS3, and I've heard odd reports about the UPS2, one being that if it is powered via the boiler (for overrun) it can fry the pcb. I fitted a UPS2 about this time last year (before hearing the rumours, and it isn't run via the boiler) and it's been OK, but there is a slight singing noise, maybe like the OP described. Unnoticeable during the day, but at night though it doesn't wake me, if I wake I can hear it. And it doesn't happen all the time. Had it on minimum fixed speed, and thought it would be better on PP - slightly lower flow. Set it on on minimum PP and it was worse, went back to fixed. It's nowhere near bad enough to warrant changing the pump, but it's made me think.