Mr Plumber Horror Story

[MorrG]

Damn, I almost went with these guys...

Customers locked out after firm goes bust

Feel bad for anyone who lost money

There’s so many dodgy training centres out there.

 

[Old Account]

Damn, I almost went with these guys...

Customers locked out after firm goes bust

Feel bad for anyone who lost money

There’s so many dodgy training centres out there.

I had same problem in Kent with another company 2 years ago and everyone paid so much money including me and what did we get nothing ... no certificates that we last the Theorie nothing at all. They just run away with all the money. All the big companies get laid but you as a tradesman you won’t see a penny. That’s called legal stealing. There is no legal body to sort thing s like this, that would never happen in Europe.

 

[MorrG]

I had one guy lie directly to my face. He told me that NVQ’s weren’t a thing anymore and that C&G certificates were now the new standard. He tried selling me a 6035-03 certificate for £6500! What’s worse is he said if was ‘pay as you learn’ so as long as you paid back the full amount eventually you’d be alright if you missed payments now and then, this was nonsense as reading the small print informed me that there would be ‘servere consequences for missing payments’ thankfully I didn’t sign with that training centre as I would probably still be paying them back now.

 

[rpm]

I had same problem in Kent with another company 2 years ago and everyone paid so much money including me and what did we get nothing . no certificates that we last the Theorie nothing at all. They just run away with all the money. All the big companies get laid but you as a tradesman you won’t see a penny. That’s called legal stealing. There is no legal body to sort thing s like this, that would never happen in Europe.

Who calls it legal stealing Ron and what makes you so sure it wouldn`t happen in Europe? Companies go to the wall all over the world.

 

[Old Account]

Who calls it legal stealing Ron and what makes you so sure it wouldn`t happen in Europe? Companies go to the wall all over the world.

I call it leagal stealing ... People get ripped off and they want see a lenny afterwards. How often that happens the lasy 2 years ... you havent got any legal body which helps those People who went through such a time. I do t think its nice to pay 5k and seeing f.oh in the end. Who wins, the guys who run the company ... another say they Open 7nder a different name and ripping thousand of other People off. I know it wont happen in germany because there is a legal body where you get your monet back. I agree everywhere in the world companies go in liquidation but Here in uk it’s just too often. Sorry, but it ain’t right ... I have been there and know how it feels

 

[gmartine]

Aren't these the sh*t sticks who tried to promote a plumbers app here?

 

[MorrG]

I made an inquiry with them and then sent me two emails and called me four times! I even said on the first call that I’d think about it and call them back but they were very Persistent. A real college would never do that, feel bad for the people that lost money trying to better themselves.

 

[Jim Goodenough]

The individuals who devise such crooked schemes 'should' have assets to the value of what they rip genuine, hard-working people off stripped from them!
There should be system that the 'hard-working, honest individual, who wants to learn' gets reimbursed IN FULL...

 

[leelister6]

Would paying for courses by credit card afford some protection?

 

[CHRISX]

Would paying for courses by credit card afford some protection?

Hello leelister6 / All,

Thanks to leelister6 for mentioning the possibility of obtaining Credit card refunds - that is a definite possibility.

I do hope that this will be helpful to anyone who has paid for Training courses by Credit card and has not received the training or part of it:

The `Consumer Credit Act 1974 - Section 75` gives protection for all Credit card payments of between £100.00 and £30,000.

Putting it very simply if one pays for something that you either do not receive or is faulty and the Company / Seller refuses to resolve the situation or give a refund - or as in this case has ceased trading having taken payments but have not provided the training - You can claim a full refund from your Credit card provider.

They do not have to be able to reclaim the money back from the Company - the Credit card provider has to accept the loss - that is part of their responsibility as `Approved Lenders` who are regulated by various regulatory bodies and who have to abide by all of the regulations contained in the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

For Refunds in cases like this contact them and ask to claim under - `Section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act`.

I hope that I am not breaking any Forum rules by posting this link to the Money Saving Expert website where much more detail is available about this `Section 75` Consumer Credit Act protection:

Section 75 refunds: free protection over £100 - MSE

I hope that this will be helpful to any Member / Reader who has had payments taken by this or any other Company in the future who do not provide what has been paid for.

Regards,

Chris

 

[chris watkins]

I do feel for those who have lost money I really do but it has happened so many times, over so many years that with a small amount of research into what is required to become a qualified plumber & which qualifications are accepted on site it should have flagged up the dangers of going with these type of (so called) training providers. As with most things it is buyer be where & if becoming a fully qualified trade person in 'X' amount of weeks seems too good to be true (as a posed to 3-4 years) then it probably is.

I think C&G have a lot to answer for, first of all they said the only qualification for our industry was going to be the 6089 NVQ (site base evidence requirement) this was going to be the replacement for the 6129 which had been thoroughly abused by FE colleges & private training alike. Then they worked out how much income they were going to loose, all of a sudden up pops the 6035 - no NVQ required.

 

[Ric2013]

Wouldn't happen (legally) in Italy either. In Italy, a limited company has an administrator who takes personal responsibility for the company's debts. You can't just take your salary and declare the company insolvent as you can over here.

Knew a guy who ran a chair factory in Italy. When the business went bust, he and his wife got to stay in their mansion until the children were 18, but they had to pay rent to stay there, and, later, they had to move out. The mansion had been sold to pay the business' debts.

 

[MorrG]

I do feel for those who have lost money I really do but it has happened so many times, over so many years that with a small amount of research into what is required to become a qualified plumber & which qualifications are accepted on site it should have flagged up the dangers of going with these type of (so called) training providers. As with most things it is buyer be where & if becoming a fully qualified trade person in 'X' amount of weeks seems too good to be true (as a posed to 3-4 years) then it probably is.

I think C&G have a lot to answer for, first of all they said the only qualification for our industry was going to be the 6089 NVQ (site base evidence requirement) this was going to be the replacement for the 6129 which had been thoroughly abused by FE colleges & private training alike. Then they worked out how much income they were going to loose, all of a sudden up pops the 6035 - no NVQ required.

This particular company were offering people NVQ qualifications (6189 certificates) because they were actually a plumbing company as well as a training centre. They would place learners who had completed their 6035 certificate in work for two weeks so they could complete their portfolio and get the necessary parts done onsite to achieve the NVQ.

 

[chris watkins]

They would place learners who had completed their 6035 certificate in work for two weeks so they could complete their portfolio and get the necessary parts done onsite to achieve the NVQ.

And therein lies to problem TWO Weeks on site experience seriously !!
Do they think that a trade I spend 4 years learning can be done in 10 days & don't tell me how long they spent in the training centre cos that is not where you learn how to plumb.
I actual find it quite insulting that people believe that it can be like this. This world is fast becoming a place where people believe that in place of hard graft there must & should be a sort cut.
The reality is that worthwhile things have to be worked at in this life.

 

[Ric2013]

On the other hand, if you get the right experience, you don't necessarily need 4 years to learn it. During those 4 years, you probably spent a lot of your time doing the same tasks repeatedly, many of which did not require much knowledge or skill, and perhaps you learnt a new thing every day.

Not everyone can learn 10 new things a day, or gets the opportunity to, but you will appreciate there is a world of difference between a situation in which you are trying to get a job done and earn a wage, while learning as you go, and a situation in which the person you are working with is actively trying to get you to learn as much as possible.

My point being that 10 days is far too short a time, but a fast learner, in the right conditions and with the right people (a situation that a training centre could, hypothetically, bring about), could learn the trade in significantly less than 4 years. Which doesn't mean this is what is happening in practice.

 

[MorrG]

Nobody is learning the trade in two weeks, that two week course was just for the NVQ. You’d need the 6035 certificate before that which is a classroom and workshop based qualification.

In four years I assume you learnt gas or at least gained your level 3? If you spent four years doing your level 2 then something went wrong. It would take less than two (academic) years in a proper college to complete both the 6035 and the 6189.

 

[Ric2013]

I assume he learnt all the bits they don't teach you at college?

 

[chris watkins]

Nobody is learning the trade in two weeks, that two week course was just for the NVQ. You’d need the 6035 certificate before that which is a classroom and workshop based qualification.

You are trying to MorrG and for those of us who have worked in this industry for long enough to understand what a person needs to be a Plumber will tell you it can't be learnt in a classroom or a sanitised work shop, you have to be out there working along side experienced people who can help & guide you.
You think it can be but it can't, however good a learner you are, however many transferable skills you come with etc. there is no shortcut, you need time on the tools to perfect the skills.
Those skill required to work on a new build site are a lot less than to work as a domestic plumber in peoples houses & the site is more forgiving if you do get it wrong, so why is it that all the firms I know just can't get so called "Plumbers" who can do it? They won't even entertain anyone new unless they can show they have learnt alongside other plumber for a couple of years minimum.

I know you have been sold a dream but you need to understand the reality.

 

[MorrG]

I’m not trying to learn a trade in two week and I never said that it was possible to become a plumber in two weeks? I didn’t use this company in the end (thankfully)

I think it takes a minimum of two years, one year learning in a classroom and workshop followed by another year of full time work (as a plumbers mate) alongside an experienced plumber. The problem is that it’s hard to get experience without any qualifications.

If you’re working alongside a plumber full time either as an apprentice or as a plumbers mate then it should not take you four years just to acquire the NVQ level 2.

 

[Ric2013]

Even if you do a year's course in a college, it will only be two days a week. Two of my theory modules for college (rainwater and drainage) I studied from the textbook and Approved Document H at home. I then completed some college worksheets also at home and spent half an hour with a few questions with the teacher.

It saved me sitting through hours of having to sit through lessons 'learning' that gutters have to fall towards an outlet and that the final gutter bracket must be withing 150mm of the gutter end, or sitting in a room filling out worksheets that I could easily do at home. The lessons were, of course, structured for the majority of people who are not used to independent study. The City and Guilds exams were multiple choice. I got a lot out of college, but only because I harrassed the teachers with nth degree questions on the details they would otherwise have omitted. Luckily they quite enjoyed having an engaged student.

If you had a course that was full-time and took a year it would probably be very good, but City and Guilds is not anywhere near this level.

 

[MorrG]

This particular training centre was giving BPEC certificates and not C&G. From what I researched they seem to be the same (?)

I did the C&G 6035 level 2 diploma in a real college (not a training academy) and like you said, it was two days per week for one academic year.

 

[chris watkins]

Plumbing and Domestic Heating Technician
The link above shows the standards for the new qualification to replace all the others (C&G's BPEC & the like) it is due to be rolled out over the course of this year although I understand that most FE colleges will not be ready for it come September.
Interestingly it is Level 3 only, there is no Level 2 option. They have decided that to be a qualified plumber this is the level you must attain. It will last 48 months however "This may reduce if an apprentice has gained previous relevant knowledge and skills, which is recognised as Accredited Prior Learning."
Like the all the new Trailblazer Quals there will also be an independent trade skills test which must be passed at the end just like the electrical AM2 testing.
With luck this will provide a clear distinction between the training requirements to become properly qualified & those training centres offering substandard stuff which has lead to so many sad stories of people being taken for lots of money trying to better themselves.

 

[Ric2013]

Bugger. So my level 2 course was, on paper anyway, a waste of time then

 

[chris watkins]

Bugger. So my level 2 course was, on paper anyway, a waste of time then

Of course it wasn't, learning is never a waste & from what I can tell you are a good'n but how many people who have gone through 6035 college only route go on to make it, let me tell you very few, all that wasted money, time & broken dreams.

IMHO it is very wrong that when the knowledge & skills required are high that 'not fit for purpose' qualifications are allowed to be run claiming that they are what is required when the reality is of course that nothing is required to work as a plumber in this country.

 

[Ric2013]

It will be a waste if the entry level to other things is no longer NVQ2 (e.g. HETAS, level 3) because it will mean I'll have to start from scratch. Learning is never a waste, but if the qual becomes obsolete then the certificate has no value.

EDIT: That said, the 6189 seems to be all C&G is mentioning, so perhaps an element of the apprenticeship you mention will be the 6189, coupled with a renewable course, or HETAS OFTEC etc solid fuel, or the Level 3 with gas or oil?

In fact, the apprenticship page refers to a level 3 Plumbing and Domestic Heating Qualification, which could well be the current course, as even approved centres that deliver the apprenticeship you have mentioned are still showing the levels 2 and 3 6189 with level 2 being a pre-requisite of level 3. So perhaps all that is changing is that an apprenticeship can no longer be considered complete at level 2?

What I don't follow is where the level 3 course covers renewables or solid fuel, as once the Level 3 includes these, I'll be far more interested than at present.

 

[MorrG]

In fairness to C&G, they make it quite clear that obtaining the 6035 certificate doesn’t make you a fully qualified plumber and any real college will tell you that as well. It’s these training academies that are trying to pass off that qualification as something that will make you a plumber after completion. The course itself was good and will help you learn the basics but further learning (onsite) will be required to become an actual plumber and they’ll tell you that themselves (C&G)

 

[Ric2013]

But, in fairness to the Plumbing Craft certificate, the only difference between the two is that the NVQ requires you to demonstrate (i.e. be tested, in effect) to show that you are able to work in, and actually are working in, site conditions in people's houses. The NVQ does not actually teach any of this any more than the diploma.

The hardest thing is finding a Work Based Recorder. I did it as self-employed and I'd done loads of maintenance jobs, but I had to travel to find someone who would let me do these tasks under his supervision so that I could have a signed-off portfolio.

Back to your link to the apprenceship standards, page 21 shows options 3 and 4 for solid fuel and solar: are you aware of any level 3 course that covers these options?

 

[chris watkins]

In fact, the apprenticship page refers to a level 3 Plumbing and Domestic Heating Qualification, which could well be the current course, as even approved centres that deliver the apprenticeship you have mentioned are still showing the levels 2 and 3 6189 with level 2 being a pre-requisite of level 3. So perhaps all that is changing is that an apprenticeship can no longer be considered complete at level 2?

The Level 3 Plumbing and Domestic Heating Qualification is now the current course but as with all these there is a transition the level 2 & 3 6189 will be ending in the next couple of years they have to allow time for those who have just started it to complete. If you are an apprentice & your company wants the government to pay for your training then this will be the only one that will attract funding.
There will be no option to jump out half way through (Level 2) an "A" level standard course.
Lord knows what the likes of Mr Plumber will be offering!

 

[chris watkins]

Back to your link to the apprenceship standards, page 21 shows options 3 and 4 for solid fuel and solar: are you aware of any level 3 course that covers these options?

The 6189 level 3 includes an option for solar thermal (which is what we do) or other carbon fuels & renewables.
If you can find a centre that does solid fuel / biomass you can study it in the last year & even get the HETAS but the problem as you know Ric is finding someone to provide you with the onsite training and assessment.
In London because of the amount of large site work there is no chance of any of the proposed option being gained so we haven't a clue what is going to happen, they just haven't thought about it.

 

[Ric2013]

That's interesting, as my college in Aberystwyth had not told me there were options for solar and solid fuel.
HETAS or OFTEC solid fuel course I could take now with my NVQ2, but I have little interest in taking a course that covers oil as I can't see myself installing an oil boiler and so would struggle with the portfolio.
Where are you that you do the solar option?

 

[MorrG]

@Ric2013 Yeah, the 6035 is where you learn what you need to know in order to gain your NVQ. The 6189 is just proof that you’ve proven you can do what you’ve learnt in the real world.

Did you have to be working alongside a qualified a plumber when the assessments were done or was it just a case of getting your work signed off for your portfolio?

Oil is used in more rural areas, I think a lot of places in Southern Ireland (outside Dublin) still use oil more than gas.

@chris watkins the 6035 certificate replaced 6129 back in 2012. As far as I know the 6129 is still recognised but no longer taught. I assume the 6035 will still be a recognised qualification as it’s still being taught.

 

[chris watkins]

eah, the 6035 is where you learn what you need to know in order to gain your NVQ. The 6189 is just proof that you’ve proven you can do what you’ve learnt in the real world.
No it isn't I am afraid, the 6035 or any college based learning is just the theory that underlies the skills you gain from work.

Did you have to be working alongside a qualified a plumber when the assessments were done or was it just a case of getting your work signed off for your portfolio?
Are you asking if he & his work place recorder cheated & didn't complete the NVQ as required?

@chris watkins the 6035 certificate replaced 6129 back in 2012. As far as I know the 6129 is still recognised but no longer taught. I assume the 6035 will still be a recognised qualification as it’s still being taught.

All passed qualifications are recognised even my Craft & Advanced from 1978 but the 6129 & 6035 are college based only, they are neither recognised nor excepted as proof that you are a qualified Plumber if you want to work on a building site nor would they give you access to the ACS gas route which is required to become Gas Safe Registered.

 

[MorrG]

@chris watkins absolutely correct, the 6035 certificate does not make you a qualified plumber (even says so itself) but you need it in order to gain your NVQ. An apprentice would be doing both courses together in order to gain the full level 2 qualification (6189)

The 6035 certificate is recognised as its part of the NVQ (the classroom and workshop part) the other part is gained onsite. I believe most apprentice plumbers usually do three days work and two days at college (could be wrong)

The 6035 certificate alone won’t get you onsite unless you’re working as a plumbers mate with a standard CSCS card (which is the idea of it)

 

[chris watkins]

The 6035 certificate alone won’t get you onsite unless you’re working as a plumbers mate with a standard CSCS card (which is the idea of it)

Quite right I should have put the "alone" into must post but I did say "qualified Plumber"
This post is going on bit now so this is my last one but I hope you can see the points & information in them.
There is no personal attack here, I know a good number who have come through the same route & are excellent plumbers but I also know there are thousands & thousands of effected lives out there because they couldn't make it some after being sold an expensive dream (just as you came close too).
On a daily bases I see the consequences of the poor knowledge & skills in the plumbing sector, this has a clear effect on our trades reputation, there is little respect of my skills by the public. Building projects both large & small have no choice than to employ persons who can't do the work, this further drives down the money we can command & wastes public & private finances.

 

[Ric2013]

@Ric2013
Did you have to be working alongside a qualified a plumber when the assessments were done or was it just a case of getting your work signed off for your portfolio?

The assessments were done in college and were part of what would be the diploma.

The installations/maintenance tasks for the NVQ were carried out on site. Some of them were directly observed (i.e. the college sent an assessor to visit while I was working as a self-employed person) while others could be witnessed by qualified or time served plumbers. The plumber had to actually be there while I was working, if that's what you mean.

In practice, this meant the ones that fell into the latter category involved a mixture of volunteering for a qualified plumber who could then sign my portfolio to confirm the work was my work and met industry standards and he'd seen me do it, and self-employed work that was witnessed by a semi-retired time-served plumber friend of mine who then signed similar paperwork. Then my college assessor looked at the evidence and decided whether it was up to standard.

The course is, really, designed for apprentices who are employed, but does not exclude other methods, although I suspect most colleges and training centres would not be as willing to find the alternative avenues detailed in the rulebook as mine was.

 

[MorrG]

@chris watkins I agree with you. I think you’re looking at it as a plumber and you see these people coming into your trade after short courses and do bad jobs and drive down prices (as well as damaging the reputation of tradesman) whereas I’m focusing more on the training companies who are selling these short courses and claiming people can be plumbers in a few weeks (for thousands of pounds)


I’ve had salesmen from these training companies lie directly to my face, one told me that the NVQ was no longer a recognised qualification and that the 6035 certificates were now the one that employers look for when hiring. I did my research and thankfully didn’t get caught out but I feel sorry for anyone that did because a lot of them were lied to by salesmen and sold something that wasn’t real.


@Ric2013 Yeah, I was wondering if the plumber had to be there whilst you worked and got assessed by somebody from the college. How long did it take you to complete your NVQ? Apprenticeships are the best way to learn obviously but they’re not really suitable for adults who have financial commitments unfortunately. The funding isn’t there either so you’ll be paying to do it whilst earning next to nothing and that’s why companies like Mr Plumber are in business.

 

[Ric2013]

@Ric2013 How long did it take you to complete your NVQ? Apprenticeships are the best way to learn obviously but they’re not really suitable for adults who have financial commitments unfortunately.

My experience was that, once I had spent the money to start the NVQ on a day a week two year course, this made it easier to get the supervised work experience. I wasn't able to get an apprenticeship, but I was doing handyman work, so I was getting some work for myself; the hardest bit is finding someone who can be there to witness at the time you are working.

The NVQ and diploma were completed in two years. To get the witnessed experience wasn't always plain sailing as there were times I had a perfect install but no one to witness or when what I was installing did not quite meet the criteria; on the reverse side, there was one lucky moment when I realised that a friend of the family of some customers, who had been present while I worked and who I had chatted to, though not currently working full-time as a plumber, had indenture certificates from the 1970s and, as such was able to be my witness.

A part of my portfolio was actually passed by my assessor in unusual circumstances because I didn't manage to get the Work-Based Recorder to sign the documentation, though he did confirm I had completed the work. Luckily, and almost at the last minute, my college assessor found some wording in the City and Guilds manual that meant he was able to allow me to pass that section on the basis od oral questioning and photographic (and other) evidence, which is not the usual route.

 

[MorrG]

@Ric2013 Thanks for sharing your experience. I have complete the 6035 diploma (levels 2 and 3) and I’m now looking to gain my NVQ but I’m having trouble finding work as a plumbers mate (with a qualified plumber) maybe I’ll look into the self employed route and find somebody to sign off my work.

I was going to use Mr Plumber to get it done but now they’ve gone under and nobody else seems to be offering what they were (a work placement)

 

[Ric2013]

I wish you all the best of luck with that. In fairness, I think the requirements for a WBR are 3 years (or 5?) full-time plumbing, or hold the NVQ2 or equivalent (as many plumbers hold the predecessors to the NVQ), so you may find a retired plumber could be used if you happen to know anyone. Worth asking around people you know.

In theory, colleges should be able to take you on for the NVQ part only and I did consider doing my NVQ in Kent where my WBR was based, but in practice I found most colleges did not seem to understand what the heck I was on about and so, given that I very much liked my own college, I decided not to bother digging too hard.

 

[MorrG]

Thanks and thanks for telling me how you got qualifed. I just want to get my NVQ sorted as I've done levels 2 and 3 of the diploma and got the water regulations cert sorted too! Do you need to get the NVQ level 2 before going for the level 3 or can you just jump straight into the level 3 (seeing as I've done the level 3 diploma)

 

[Ric2013]

Thanks and thanks for telling me how you got qualifed. I just want to get my NVQ sorted as I've done levels 2 and 3 of the diploma and got the water regulations cert sorted too! Do you need to get the NVQ level 2 before going for the level 3 or can you just jump straight into the level 3 (seeing as I've done the level 3 diploma)

I would imagine the Level 2 needs to be completed first as the requirements are quite different, not more of the same. My college told me that getting together a L2 portfolio is actually harder than a L3 one in terms of the hoop-jumping. But if I said I were certain, I would be lying.

 

[Kay101]

Interesting thread and insights into current training.

The 6035 has a disclaimer required to be signed by pupils identifying that the qualification does not lead to competence or a short cut into gas etc. this has been in place for years and I suspect it was to stop miss selling.

I think two weeks for the on site is to short, it should take longer to gain more varied experience, but having said that, when I came out of my time 30 years ago they always said that's when you start learning. We shouldn't expect newly qualified people to be fully up to speed, they are new into it

Also, a qualification shouldn't be seen as a license to practice, another debate is the control of the industry, should it require a separate license?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

i think it should be licensed and permitted esp on gas would cut alot of the rouges out,

stuff like a full/new bathroom, full/new kitchen, a new boiler being installed all need permits pulling before work carries out

then 1st fix plumbing and elecs gets inspected before boarding

then finished job gets inspected and signed off dont mind paying for the inspectors to come out as the prices wouldnt be stupid then and people would be getting a decent job done

 

[Kay101]

Gas is already licensed through GSR.
If inspections where made for each install it would be very costly.
I think licensing could be done after say 5 years in the trade, so if you are an apprentice you get your license one year after finishing, but for shorter courses of say 2 years you need another 3 after completion, then you sign off your own work

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Gas is already licensed through GSR.
If inspections where made for each install it would be very costly.
I think licensing could be done after say 5 years in the trade, so if you are an apprentice you get your license one year after finishing, but for shorter courses of say 2 years you need another 3 after completion, then you sign off your own work

gsr is a joke

the yanks managed to do it

the regs state aslong as you dont get paid for gas works they cant touch you

i agree with the licensing but with a tweak

plumbing apprenticeship for 5 years, then once you pass that you can either stay where you are or take you gas apprenticeship and that lasts for 2 years no fast passes or courses

 

[chris watkins]

So I take it no one has heard of the new Plumbing and Domestic Heating Technicians Apprenticeship Standard (TrailBlazer) ST0303/AP01 ?
This is the new qualification for the industry, if you want to claim funding (upto £21K) for your training costs then this is the one which will have to be undertaken.
It is a Level 3 only, requires Level 2 English & Maths at entry level, will last around 48 months, has
On-programme work based performance assessments as well as college based ones during the first 45 months
Then the following assessments only within the last 3 months consisting of the following :-
Multiple Choice Test
Design Project
Practical Installation Test
Practical Application Test
Professional Discussion
All of which form part of a graded end test.

It will also allow them to gain one of the following
N.Gas (ACS)
Oil (OFTEC)
Solid Fuel
Environmental Technologies
Given that they have access to the site experience.
Plumbing and Domestic Heating Technician

 

[chris watkins]

I started in 1978 & quickly came to realise we needed a registration scheme just like many other countries operate, I am convinced that I will end my days without one.
There are enough Laws in place in this country covering our work areas to protect the public health & safety, it is just that there is NO policing so they are broken & flouted on a daily basis by most.
Inspection is not the answer it would be costly but more importantly how would you know where to inspect? It can only be a real threat of prosecution, without the option of removal of a license to work.

 

[Kay101]

gsr is a joke

the yanks managed to do it

the regs state aslong as you dont get paid for gas works they cant touch you

i agree with the licensing but with a tweak

plumbing apprenticeship for 5 years, then once you pass that you can either stay where you are or take you gas apprenticeship and that lasts for 2 years no fast passes or courses

USA has numerous different models, it changes with each state but what is fairly consistent if the trade test, usually related to theory based state building laws.
Problem with using the apprenticeship as the measure is you say after it you know everything, you don't, you know enough to work, but then you need experience of working without supervision, hence my suggestion of a further year.
The regs don't say if you don't get paid they cannot touch you, they defiantly can, the regs state you must be competent, so if your not qualified, registered or not I don't see how you can prove that

The four year apprenticeship already includes gas, your suggestion of 7 years wouldn't work, you can get gas qualified by doing your ACS, nobody would bother. ACS is seen as a short cut and one of the bigger issues than a two year college course which you already sign to say doesn't lead to competence

 

[Kay101]

I started in 1978 & quickly came to realise we needed a registration scheme just like many other countries operate, I am convinced that I will end my days without one.
There are enough Laws in place in this country covering our work areas to protect the public health & safety, it is just that there is NO policing so they are broken & flouted on a daily basis by most.
Inspection is not the answer it would be costly but more importantly how would you know where to inspect? It can only be a real threat of prosecution, without the option of removal of a license to work.

I have often asked for a license scheme, your right the issue is costly and difficult to police, but it could be done. Electrical have one, not compulsory but works very well.
To get a card to practice you should prove qual she and experience, allowing the qual to test skills and card to check experience. This would stop the two week assessments on a qual, or maybe it wouldn't but they would still need x amount of years before someone can get their card, we are almost there with cscs

 

[ShaunCorbs]

USA has numerous different models, it changes with each state but what is fairly consistent if the trade test, usually related to theory based state building laws.
Problem with using the apprenticeship as the measure is you say after it you know everything, you don't, you know enough to work, but then you need experience of working without supervision, hence my suggestion of a further year.
The regs don't say if you don't get paid they cannot touch you, they defiantly can, the regs state you must be competent, so if your not qualified, registered or not I don't see how you can prove that

The four year apprenticeship already includes gas, your suggestion of 7 years wouldn't work, you can get gas qualified by doing your ACS, nobody would bother. ACS is seen as a short cut and one of the bigger issues than a two year college course which you already sign to say doesn't lead to competence

why wouldnt it work most of them dont learn any of the tech side in the collage any way