Merchants Vs Online.

[WaterTight]

Obviously sometimes you need to go to a merchant but for general re-stocking I think you'd be mad not to use online companies like bes.co.uk. Even in the most decent trade merchants the price is double or triple what it is online. Whenever i buy something in a merchant I end up checking to see what it would have cost online and it's always a shock.

I post this thread because I bet there's loads of guys out there who only use merchants. I've worked for one. Imagine what they'd save over a year.

 

[moony]

i only use merchants - have accounts there - dont have one online and if theres any problems im straight back there - wouldnt use online - and if im ever installing a bathroom thats been bought online then i often find faults.

if a customer had bought a boiler online i would be wary also and tell them the warranty is with the company purchased from.

merchants all the time for me - probably would save a fair bit online but i like the relationship ive got with local trade counters

 

[WaterTight]

i'm with you on buying bathrooms and boilers online. but parts, fittings, pipe etc.. if you have a high turnover i cannot imagine how much you could save. i save a few hundred a month and i'm not busy.

 

[moony]

the more you buy from the merchants the better your prices are - terms.... if i started buying fittings and parts online i wouldnt get my boilers and bathrooms as cheap.

 

[dontknowitall]

Online supply is great till there's a problem.

There's something really pleasant and old fashioned by tootling into your local merchant and having a chat. And if you support your local business, you're also supporting your local economy which keeps your house price in better shape and helps your children find jobs more easily and ....

 

[mark.brazenor@b]

Local merchant for me. I mainly use just the one even though they are 8 miles from me. Sure fittings are slightly more expensive than bes, etc, but they are competitive on larger objects (boilers, bathrooms, etc) and will price match if possible with online retailers. As my turnover is reasonably good with them my terms have increased over the years.

However, what really set them ahead of online stores is the service I receive. For example I was doing a bathroom job approx 15 miles from the merchants, the customer asked if I could replace a radiator while I was there. I rang my merchant, they had the size I needed in stock, I asked if there was any chance of it being delivered and they delivered it to me that afternoon at the job. That meant I could finish that day without another trip to the customer and in their eyes I was a hero in being able to replace the radiator (I did their other bathroom last week as a result) . I can't see an online store being able to compete with that.

 

[justlead1]

Hi With the massive increase of sole traders in our trade over the past 30 years, plumbing and heating merchants have had a field day. As an example i live in a small town 14000 people but there are 2 national plumbers merchants plus 2 national builders merchants. Yet the plumbers merchants employ staff 4 staff each as an average. The managers will tell you they are only making 4 percent etc on some items. They are not telling porkis, but the figures given to them from manages in head office who are never challenged. 20 years ago i was a supplier to a national builder merchant (offspring of a spurs supporter) Their bottom line for the item i supplied was £17 if say you negotiated to buy 10, the max i could get was £8 each. The individuals buying power is zilch, it pay to shop around.

 

[tackleburger]

i only use merchants - have accounts there - dont have one online and if theres any problems im straight back there - wouldnt use online - and if im ever installing a bathroom thats been bought online then i often find faults.

if a customer had bought a boiler online i would be wary also and tell them the warranty is with the company purchased from.

merchants all the time for me - probably would save a fair bit online but i like the relationship ive got with local trade counters

Ultimately it would be. If you bought a boiler at the merchants fitted it and it was faulty you wouldn't take it back would you. Nothing wrong with buying a boiler online at all. Bathrooms can be a problem but unless it's a cheapo of the shelf at a merchants you'll wait the same time for a replacement. I bought some Ideal standard stuff on line they got it to me quicker than the merchants could and cheaper. saved about £200 on a Keston C55 recently as well. I don't know any plumbers who can get a boiler cheaper at a merchants than on line, only firms that are buying loads via a deal with manufacturers and subsequently supplied via a merchant account. I do buy boilers from the merchants but could probably save about £30 quid a time but it is easier having them deliver to the job when i am there than arranging for a delivery.

In summary i use merchants but the argument for them is getting weaker and can only see more consolidation with them soon following TP taking over BSS. They have to get in on the on-Line act as well order via your trade account on-line?? Now that would be interesting.

Buy most of my fittings on line buy in bulk once a month save loads that way.

 

[Phil]

I have to say I'm with Watertight, I buy from BES all the time but if its cheaper at PTS then I'll buy it there. I have a local independant but he used to charge me full retail price everytime I went in so I stopped buying from him and turned to PTS.

When I'm there and I've bought a few things I have a figure in my head of the worst case senerio price and often its even more than that.

I always get the customer to buy bathrooms so my monthly spend there is minimal anyway. The main problem is I'm so busy I don't have time to keep going down there and joining the que for 15 minutes its easier and cheaper to buy from BES.

For plywood, tile adhesive, silicone, plasterboard etc I use local builders merchants and get up to 40% off most items, I'm there a couple of times a week.

For soil fittings I use Screwfix, the Floplast ones are absolutly fine and are £££'s cheaper than the Hepworth stuff at merchants.

Does anyone use their local Jewsons? What a rip off place they are! over £40 for a 110mm access branch and £17 at Screwfix, Jewsons near me is always a ghost town, the staff just sit their all day twidling their thumbs wondering where all the customers are, the high prices and poor range is the reason.

 

[tackleburger]

Hi With the massive increase of sole traders in our trade over the past 30 years, plumbing and heating merchants have had a field day. As an example i live in a small town 14000 people but there are 2 national plumbers merchants plus 2 national builders merchants. Yet the plumbers merchants employ staff 4 staff each as an average. The managers will tell you they are only making 4 percent etc on some items. They are not telling porkis, but the figures given to them from manages in head office who are never challenged. 20 years ago i was a supplier to a national builder merchant (offspring of a spurs supporter) Their bottom line for the item i supplied was £17 if say you negotiated to buy 10, the max i could get was £8 each. The individuals buying power is zilch, it pay to shop around.

Heard the 4/5% numbers being banded about but that'll be net profit after all costs. The whole game is volume on the big ticket items, and margin and volume on fittings and valves etc, copper pipe is a loss leader sometimes i got offered 10 bundles of 15 and 5 22 for a really good price the merchant offers to keep it and I call it off as required then once used we negotiate the price (probably based around how much I spend when collecting my pipe) I liked this one thought it was a creative win-win. Can't get it cheaper anywhere else and if I did I can't store it anyway.

 

[bikerbas]

when into local merchants for a flexi tap conector charged me £2.80 trade ,i said bloody el thats dear only 90p a toolstation.Wont be getting my custom again

 

[oldplumber]

when into local merchants for a flexi tap conector charged me £2.80 trade ,i said bloody el thats dear only 90p a toolstation.Wont be getting my custom again

If youre happy to install a 90p flexi tap connector that is probably from china and not even wras approved then you are probably happy to run the risk of flooding out your customer as this cheap trash is failing regularly now. Cheaper still, learn to pull and offset and do the job properly. Only a guess but biker bas doesnt own a bending spring does he?

As ever, you pays your money and lives with the result!!!!!!!!!

 

[REDSAW]

just grabbed 1m 15mm chrome pipe, 2 chrome elbows, 1 coupler compression fix from my favorite local merchant. for 12p short of £10............rip off.

 

[Bernie2]

I am not to bad. Toolstation have branch near me for the few things I buy and are by far the cheapest locally. Most of the merchants in the area seem to have gone belly up and the likes of B and Q have taken over.

However I went to B and Q to get some screw cup washers their price worked out at about £18-80p for 200. Toolstations £1-88p for 200.

And people wonder why I go nuts over pricing? I don't mind fair profit but over 800% more profit from material already with an added profit?

Basically, it means you can't even know by its price if your getting quality or not.

Is it just a cheap article with a very high mark up or a reasonably priced good quality article? I must admit I don't mind paying for quality, but go nuts at high mark ups.

Its unrealistic, like guys working in Tescos at £5.50 an hour going on three month course and then wanting £60 an hour for a bit of paper somebody gave them?

Don't object to them wanting a better job and having a go, nor the training, but the pricing is mad and will probably drive up prices for us all.

If you want the big licks, go for bulk and make a few bob off many jobs not loads of one or two, in other words expand.

Its good for the economy and provides jobs.

 

[bikerbas]

Oldplumber yes i do own a pipe bender so dont jump to conclusions.
for the record the flexi from the merchants wasent wras approved.
I quoted to replace in copper as old flexi was kinked customer said just replace with another flexi wanted as cheap as poss.

 

[tackleburger]

I have to say I'm with Watertight, I buy from BES all the time but if its cheaper at PTS then I'll buy it there. I have a local independant but he used to charge me full retail price everytime I went in so I stopped buying from him and turned to PTS.

When I'm there and I've bought a few things I have a figure in my head of the worst case senerio price and often its even more than that.

I always get the customer to buy bathrooms so my monthly spend there is minimal anyway. The main problem is I'm so busy I don't have time to keep going down there and joining the que for 15 minutes its easier and cheaper to buy from BES.

For plywood, tile adhesive, silicone, plasterboard etc I use local builders merchants and get up to 40% off most items, I'm there a couple of times a week.

For soil fittings I use Screwfix, the Floplast ones are absolutly fine and are £££'s cheaper than the Hepworth stuff at merchants.

Does anyone use their local Jewsons? What a rip off place they are! over £40 for a 110mm access branch and £17 at Screwfix, Jewsons near me is always a ghost town, the staff just sit their all day twidling their thumbs wondering where all the customers are, the high prices and poor range is the reason.

Jewsons! They tried that with me once I had a few soil fittings and they wanted £90 I went directly over the road to MKM and got the lot for £35. Difference jewsons is Osma MKM Polypipe.

 

[tamz]

I use the merchants for many various reasons which could be listed as pro's but mainly service. The only con is you have to constantly watch them as they will screw the prices up given half a chance.

I do use online suppliers for fittings and the only pro i can think of is cost. Can think of a dozen cons though.

The trick, if you can call it that, with using merchants is to get a list of your terms from each one. Negotiate on prices and play them against each other as no one merchant is the cheapest for everything. They will march prices on some things if they think they can gain a bit somewhere else. Consider setting up an PO number system if your wife doesn't work.

The above is fine for me as i buy quite a bit of stuff in a month but if you are a one man band doing jobbing you would be better buying stock from the internet.

 

[Phil]

BES have put their prices up again, its going to be even worse next year with 20% VAT. The PRV's have gone up nearly a fiver!!

I can't help thinking I'm loosing money these days when I sell materials onto the customer, for instance you attend to a keaking sink and you need to replace various waste fittings and maybe the trap, sometimes when you've finished you just don't have time to go looking through paperwork, catalogues etc to find out the exact new price. so you end up doing a rough head count of what you think the price is.

I am going to have to keep an eye on it, what do you guys do?

 

[tamz]

Get yourself a catalogue or 2 from the merchants and keep it in the van. The PTS one is good and the prices are not too ott.

 

[dontknowitall]

I don't invoice until I know how much I've paid for the materials. I much prefer a week's delay in payment to selling for the wrong price.

 

[WaterTight]

I prefer not leaving the job until I've been paid. But that's jobbing work for you.

Just spent a couple of hundred on fittings, pipe etc on bes. God only knows what it would have been in a merchants.

 

[dontknowitall]

Couple of hundred at mine!! I find my (two) local merchants are very competitive.

 

[tamz]

I don't invoice until I know how much I've paid for the materials. I much prefer a week's delay in payment to selling for the wrong price.

That one will come back to bite you on the rse. Get up to speed on prices and take the money on completion whenever you can.

 

[ncowburn]

try obas uk ask 4 the plumbing guy neil hell sort out a good service all wrass approved product and a trade account. Its a really good place his number is 07530069267