Giving information

[parkesy_plumb]

Another rant from me ...

got a call yesterday from a guy to investigate water hammer noises when flushing his toilet. Said no problem but wanted me at his house at 6.30am as he was working all day. It was dead local to me so I obliged.

went round this morning and said straight away what was wrong (new inlet as it was a grubby torbeck). He asked am I hundred percent sure and how I'd go about doing it. I gave a quick run down and said I'll go out n grab one and come back in the eve to fit. He agreed and I was off.

Got a text an hour later said he wanted to cancel the appointment said he's having a go himself

the git obviously just wanted to know what was up for free info grrrr! Learned lesson now not to give anything away

anyone else have any similar stories?

parkesy

 

[mfgs]

Send him an invoice for your standard minimum charge for the original visit. You have still used your skill, knowledge and time to diagnose the problem and as such it is chargeable.

 

[rpm]

+1 as above

 

[chris watkins]

Another rant from me ...

got a call yesterday from a guy to investigate water hammer noises when flushing his toilet. Said no problem but wanted me at his house at 6.30am as he was working all day. It was dead local to me so I obliged.

went round this morning and said straight away what was wrong (new inlet as it was a grubby torbeck). He asked am I hundred percent sure and how I'd go about doing it. I gave a quick run down and said I'll go out n grab one and come back in the eve to fit. He agreed and I was off.

Got a text an hour later said he wanted to cancel the appointment said he's having a go himself

the git obviously just wanted to know what was up for free info grrrr! Learned lesson now not to give anything away

anyone else have any similar stories?

parkesy

The skill is to work out who you talk to & those that you shouldn't give anything away to.
If you don't talk to customers & treat them all like they were this one, you will loose out.

We stand & fall on relationship we make on the first meeting, ask any good salesman.

I think that one will have to go down to experience but try an invoice anyway.

 

[WaterTight]

i don't know why anybody bothers saying that, he'll never pay. just more wasted time.

 

[mfgs]

i don't know why anybody bothers saying that, he'll never pay. just more wasted time.

Well he certainly wont with that attitude. You have to at least try and get your money, you cant just let people walk all over you and do nothing about it. This world if full of chancers, and by letting them get away with it just encourages them to do it to someone else.

 

[Irish]

bag of jetcem down the stopcock hole me thinks

 

[Leo21]

You have to let people know there's a diagnosis charge before you go out, I'd invoice for time spent anyway.

 

[hammers4spanner]

I get similar hassle at that time tho before I leave I let them know a charge applies

 

[Ray Stafford]

i don't know why anybody bothers saying that, he'll never pay. just more wasted time.

I think I would invoice my call out charge. After all, he called you out. And I would follow it up through the small claims court, accepting, as watertight rightly says, that I would probably be wasting my time.

But then, I am in a bleddy minded mood today.

 

[fonta]

All the time. The trick is to make it sound very scary and never investigate for free. I charge for diagnostic and if the customer accepts the job i wave it off as part the agreed total invoice. Anyway at 6.30 you should have an overcharge in place.

 

[townfanjon]

The skill is to work out who you talk to & those that you shouldn't give anything away to.
.

Yep couldn't agree more

 

[parkesy_plumb]

I'll drop one through his door but he'll never pay. I am too trusting I think and have learned the lesson today. Luckily it was 5 mins down road. Hope he brings the ceiling down in his lounge

 

[parkesy_plumb]

The skill is to work out who you talk to & those that you shouldn't give anything away to.
If you don't talk to customers & treat them all like they were this one, you will loose out.

We stand & fall on relationship we make on the first meeting, ask any good salesman.

I think that one will have to go down to experience but try an invoice anyway.

cheers Chris yeh I'll be very careful what I say from now on

 

[CES]

I'll drop one through his door but he'll never pay. I am too trusting I think and have learned the lesson today. Luckily it was 5 mins down road. Hope he brings the ceiling down in his lounge

Just make sure when he calls you to sort his mess out that you are well compensated for your time!

 

[townfanjon]

Parksey, don't worry pal, when he has a bash cross threads the connection or knacks up the fibre washer or his service valve sprays him in the boat race and he can't stop the leak, he will know why we have plumbers LOL

 

[parkesy_plumb]

Like I say I'm not too bothered like just annoys me there's folk like that out there .. Rhymes with fog anchors

 

[Neil K]

Parksey, don't worry pal, when he has a bash cross threads the connection or knacks up the fibre washer or his service valve sprays him in the boat race and he can't stop the leak, he will know why we have plumbers LOL

Don't worry he'll get his comeuppance lol

 

[Alex Knight]

Just shag his wife/gf/mother/daughter any combination will do, will make you feel better.

 

[Best]

It's quite common for people to want free advice so that they can then save money by attempting the job themselves - or getting a cheap handyman in to do it.
I have stupidly answered someone on the phone in the past, for example, saying their rads aren't heating. When I say, their circulating pump has stopped, they thank me & I never hear from them again. Better to say, that sounds strange, I will have to look at it & fix it.
We probably all do it to some extent, - by getting advice from the internet or any tradesman that's willing to give info.
Difference here is you were asked out at a specific time to diagnose a fault. You deserve to be paid a call out. He is basically a thief & has stole some of your time & therefore money.

 

[parkesy_plumb]

It's quite common for people to want free advice so that they can then save money by attempting the job themselves - or getting a cheap handyman in to do it.
I have stupidly answered someone on the phone in the past, for example, saying their rads aren't heating. When I say, their circulating pump has stopped, they thank me & I never hear from them again. Better to say, that sounds strange, I will have to look at it & fix it.
We probably all do it to some extent, - by getting advice from the internet or any tradesman that's willing to give info.
Difference here is you were asked out at a specific time to diagnose a fault. You deserve to be paid a call out. He is basically a thief & has stole some of your time & therefore money.

I always want to give off a professional attitude but I'll know next time to keep my mouth shut. I gave advice over the phone while on treadmill at the gym other week and never heard back. Grrrr customers

 

[Best]

I always want to give off a professional attitude but I'll know next time to keep my mouth shut. I gave advice over the phone while on treadmill at the gym other week and never heard back. Grrrr customers

Probably your heavy breathing put them off ? :smile:

 

[rpm]

I always want to give off a professional attitude but I'll know next time to keep my mouth shut. I gave advice over the phone while on treadmill at the gym other week and never heard back. Grrrr customers

Just call it a trade secret
"yes I can fix it based on *yrs experiance and it will take me *hr @ £ *p/h and I`ll tell you what the problem was afterwards". Somehow I get away with it so guess it`s how you say it.

 

[Ermintrude]

I reckon it was the sponge bob pj

 

[Ray Stafford]

I always want to give off a professional attitude but I'll know next time to keep my mouth shut. I gave advice over the phone while on treadmill at the gym other week and never heard back. Grrrr customers

No!

Its fine to learn from your mistakes, but its a mistake to treat all customers like they are robbing toe-rags.

The secret to great customer relationships is a very short memory. Its absolutely not your next customers fault that your last customer was a merchant banker, and if you behave as it "they are all the same" then its YOU that will suffer in the long run.

Customers are distributed across the bell-curve of reasonableness. All that has happened here is that you have experienced one to the far left of the curve.

 

[chris watkins]

No!

Its fine to learn from your mistakes, but its a mistake to treat all customers like they are robbing toe-rags.

The secret to great customer relationships is a very short memory. Its absolutely not your next customers fault that your last customer was a merchant banker, and if you behave as it "they are all the same" then its YOU that will suffer in the long run.

Customers are distributed across the bell-curve of reasonableness. All that has happened here is that you have experienced one to the far left of the curve.

Why not the far right of the curve then Ray ?? LOL

 

[Best]

Ray is correct, there is no point in going through life with a chip on your shoulder, just because you are unfortunate to meet a rogue customer.
BUT I think we all need to be very clever in what we say to others & also be assertive when we have to.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Why not the far right of the curve then Ray ?? LOL

It depends on whether you are graphing for "reasonableness" or "unreasonableness" assuming you use the standard assumption on a bell curve that the tested variable increases in frequency on the vertical axis and
intensity on the horizontal axis

 

[parkesy_plumb]

No!

Its fine to learn from your mistakes, but its a mistake to treat all customers like they are robbing toe-rags.

The secret to great customer relationships is a very short memory. Its absolutely not your next customers fault that your last customer was a merchant banker, and if you behave as it "they are all the same" then its YOU that will suffer in the long run.

Customers are distributed across the bell-curve of reasonableness. All that has happened here is that you have experienced one to the far left of the curve.

Yeh well said Ray I didn't mean treat the next customer differently just not give away as much information.

 

[parkesy_plumb]

Probably your heavy breathing put them off ? :smile:

Bad time to take calls ...

 

[Ermintrude]

When your mid poo in a really echoey skitter

 

[chris watkins]

It depends on whether you are graphing for "reasonableness" or "unreasonableness" assuming you use the standard assumption on a bell curve that the tested variable increases in frequency on the vertical axis and
intensity on the horizontal axis

You lost me Ray, you have to remember I am just a mere plumber. Never mind, I just took it that it could be read both ways. lol

 

[tomplumb83]

Have I missed something here? Why didn't you do the job? Is it because he didn't have time as he was going to work?
Whilst I can totally understand your angry about this man wasting your time, I never go to a job to see what the fault is. I go to correct the fault. I don't charge a call out as every time I go to a job I correct the fault and get paid or I don't correct it and I don't get paid.


I do service work on a particular tap. Magnet rang me today. Can you go and look at a customers tap as its not working?
(The tap definitely need parts changing) I can come and change parts and fix it for you but I won't go and have a look.
The woman at magnet told me that there fitter might have not fitted said tap properly, that's why its not working.
I laughed and explained that its up to magnet to fit the tap correctly, not me and that she should make sure the tap is fitted correctly before asking me to go and have a look. That way, I won't waste 2-3 hrs of my time and diesel for absolutely no pay.
She was totally confused by this for some reason...

 

[mfgs]

How can you possibly know the fault or carry every single part required to cover everything with you. Its impossible to always turn up and have the part and fix it. I often go to a job to diagnose a fault, I then order the part and return to fit it.

 

[Ermintrude]

How can you possibly know the fault or carry every single part required to cover everything with you. Its impossible to always turn up and have the part and fix it. I often go to a job to diagnose a fault, I then order the part and return to fit it.

U can guess and take what u think u will need. We do no fix no fee. Thermocouples on apollos / flow worm house warmer.
Leaky nut kits pcb flow turbines plates..... 5 mins on phone can save u hours and ££££

 

[tomplumb83]

You might need to go and get a part. Fairly unusual for me to need to get parts but If you were to need a part I leave my tool bag on the job, get the part and fit it.
If it was just a plumbing fault, most parts are in the van for this very reason.
I can understand the boiler experts not having all the parts

 

[Ermintrude]

U know any boiler "experts" were recruiting

 

[tomplumb83]

I don't know how you can make it work going twice to a job.
The op was only 5mins away but if you go to do a leaking ceramic lever tap for example you can't charge twice.
I find it hard enough to get the one payment. I have afew types of cartridges and a spare tap. The customer is told before they mayneed a new tap before I go out
Showers are a tricky one I suppose. I keep a triton electric and a bar mixer. Anything else and id have to order it and go back

 

[mfgs]

U can guess and take what u think u will need. We do no fix no fee. Thermocouples on apollos / flow worm house warmer.
Leaky nut kits pcb flow turbines plates..... 5 mins on phone can save u hours and ££££

You can guess, but half the time the fault is nothing like what the customer describes to you. There is only so much van stock you can have on you to cover plumbing, heating and boiler faults. I have most common bits on the van, but its not possible to have everything or even get everything that same day especially with boiler spares.

 

[tomplumb83]

U know any boiler "experts" were recruiting

Experts are hard to come by.
Can you train me to be one?

 

[Leo21]

I don't know how you can make it work going twice to a job.
The op was only 5mins away but if you go to do a leaking ceramic lever tap for example you can't charge twice.
I find it hard enough to get the one payment. I have afew types of cartridges and a spare tap. The customer is told before they mayneed a new tap before I go out
Showers are a tricky one I suppose. I keep a triton electric and a bar mixer. Anything else and id have to order it and go back

You must an awfully big van, or not repair boilers! Have you got any idea how many different boiler parts you'd need to carry and the cost?

 

[tomplumb83]

Whilst were on the subject, have any experts ever been successful changing to diapragm on a torbeck valve?
Can you share you wisdom

* leo, read my previous post regarding boiler experts

Besides I think I'm going off subject here - it started off as a float valve change!

 

[mutley racers]

I can always get the parts the same day for any boiler (unless I am 15 miles away, next day jobby). Just pop in to adlink and get a new or reconditioned part. Not once have they not had a part in stock. Oh, once they did for an old water heater, so I just gave them the faulty pcb and they fixed it. Great service. I always charge 2 hrs for repairs like that.

 

[PhoenixServices]

I can understand carrying generic float valves, cartridges etc. but you could never carry the cartridges for the taps you would need.
Sometimes it takes weeks to get stuff in from Italy, if you can identify the manufacturer.

 

[plumben]

Whilst were on the subject, have any experts ever been successful changing to diapragm on a torbeck valve?
Can you share you wisdom

* leo, read my previous post regarding boiler experts

Besides I think I'm going off subject here - it started off as a float valve change!

The last torbec I did was in a concealed cistern but I can't remember it being to much trouble just disassemble replace and reassemble

 

[jim fennessey]

a case like this happened in scotland about 9 years ago, a plumber got an emergency call, so went out to out to customer mid winter out in the sticks,when he arrived it was something to do with central heating being goosed and needed replacing the plumber spent an hour odds going through the system with the customer explaining all what was wrong,cut a long story short the plumber invoiced,customer did not pay as he said plumber did not do anything, blah blah , plumber took customer to court, customer was ordered to pay plumber call out charge and the fee he was charged for the advice, sheriff aka judge ,said to customer you would not walk into a lawyers office and expect free advice and what do you think the plumber was doing to you,advising so he was made to pay the full invoice.

 

[parkesy_plumb]

Have I missed something here? Why didn't you do the job? Is it because he didn't have time as he was going to work?
Whilst I can totally understand your angry about this man wasting your time, I never go to a job to see what the fault is. I go to correct the fault. I don't charge a call out as every time I go to a job I correct the fault and get paid or I don't correct it and I don't get paid.


I do service work on a particular tap. Magnet rang me today. Can you go and look at a customers tap as its not working?
(The tap definitely need parts changing) I can come and change parts and fix it for you but I won't go and have a look.
The woman at magnet told me that there fitter might have not fitted said tap properly, that's why its not working.
I laughed and explained that its up to magnet to fit the tap correctly, not me and that she should make sure the tap is fitted correctly before asking me to go and have a look. That way, I won't waste 2-3 hrs of my time and diesel for absolutely no pay.
She was totally confused by this for some reason...

he called me to investigate water hammer noises originally. As for spares I carry water inlet valves but this particular sized cistern could only fit the thinnest type (green one can't remember name) so couldn't offer a there and then fix.

 

[parkesy_plumb]

Whilst were on the subject, have any experts ever been successful changing to diapragm on a torbeck valve?
Can you share you wisdom

* leo, read my previous post regarding boiler experts

Besides I think I'm going off subject here - it started off as a float valve change!

swap em out .. Cheap crap

 

[Best]

I agree ^^^ Replace Torbecks for something better, like a Fluidmaster Pro with brass tail.
Torbecks used to be good & if treated carefully they lasted for many years - even 20 years.
New ones seem hopeless & I have a few brand new Torbecks I won't fit as lost confidence in them
Strangely I can't fix them with a new washer anymore when they pass water.

 

[kris]

U know any boiler "experts" were recruiting

Me sir ermis im good with a 41b hammer and telling customer boilers knackered and theyl need a new one or all parts are discontinued on this 6 year old boiler . Do i make the grade ...? Soz i thought you was BG LOL