I think my hot water cylinder hasn’t been plumbed in properly

[pspec]

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Thanks for all the input guys I think I’m going to do a bit of everything.


I did the experiment that scott_d suggested as a conformation the water was flowing backwards and here’s the results..


Kitchen tap ran for 5mins with red and blue taps open gave a temp of 39C

Next day turned off red and blue taps to insure no back flow of water

Ran tap for 30sec water was 50C after 2mins water was 61C continued to run tap and temp stayed at 61C

With open red and blue taps and pump turned on the temp went to 69C.


So still a small climb from 61c to 69c but considering the difference was 39c to 69c I’ll call that a fix….


I’m going to insert the valve as Stigster suggested but I am tempted for speed just to pop it behind the pump on that horizontal pipe…


So that all being said something else came to light (I say came to light it has happened before but I’d forgotten about it) the fuse on the tank had tripped so the boiler had being heating up with the power of magic….and there I thought magic doesn’t exist ……

I think it must have blown 4 or 5 weeks ago as I would normally get with small gaps between them 3 to 4 shower. But the last 4 to 5 weeks I’ve been getting 1.5 to 2 showers still not bad considering nothing is heating the water..

So the power of magic has been heating my water … cool I wonder how much per unit magic costs …


Why not let’s insert another photo………..

I keep the electric heater turned off so all heat comes from the oil boiler downstairs and outside.


This is what I think is happening……………..


The downstairs boiler (not mains pressure old tank in roof type) is very basic a timer clock turns it on from 6am until 10am and all it does is constantly heat the water in the heat exchanger it kicks off and on to keep the 500ml of water in the exchanger at the set temp. If the pump upstairs draws water to heat the hot water tank it continues to heat the water if the upstairs pump is off it just heats the 500ml in the exchanger…

So with the fuse blown the pump doesn’t come on so no hot water is circulated to the upstairs hot water tank.

So this is where the mystery lies, there is no water circulating from boiler the electric heater is off but I have hot water……….. Quick call Ghostbusters….


No but really I think as heat rises the hot water from the heat exchanger must slowly start to rise which must then in turn switch the boiler on which creates more heat which then rises that starts a loop of boiler on small amount heat rises boiler on small amount of heat rises and this small loop cycle must be heating the tank not to full capacity but enough for a shower …

One thing a have noticed (see photo above) the two pipes that go into heat the tank the top one is always hot (not scolding hot) between the boiler on times 6am to 10am and the bottom pipe always cold that’s with the tripped fuse (no pump running). I’ve now reset the fuse so pump is running and both pipes are scolding hot.

So what do you think could this be some sort of capillary action (I think that’s the term) and does that mean I have a missing check valve on those pipes as surly it should only heat when you want it to..

Or is it the magic leprechauns heating my water for freeeeeeeeeeeee …….please be the leprechauns..

.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Just a minor thought and nothing to do with your problem but does the pump run 24/7 ? and does it need to, if not get it wired into its own time control The pump for your hot water circuit (yellow one)

 

[Chuck]

This is like some exercise set to apprentices. "How many examples of bad practice and poor workmanship can you identify in this system?"

I'll start the list with:

1. The circulation pump that is 'secured' in place with string.

IMO, whoever installed that system is clueless. It needs to be taken to pieces and redone properly by someone with the appropriate skill, a G3 ticket and an ounce of professional pride.

Also, pspec, unless you are a qualified plumber with a G3 ticket, which I doubt, you should not be attempting DIY repairs and modifications. Unvented systems are dangerous if they are not done right.

 

[pspec]

Just a minor thought and nothing to do with your problem but does the pump run 24/7 ? and does it need to, if not get it wired into its own time control

no not 24/7 its somehow wired to the down stairs outside boiler time clock so only on when the boiler is. From what I've been told it's incorrectly wired as it's meant to be wired to the house ring with independent time clock as you suggested so it can be utilised when needed not just when the boiler is on...

not sure who did the plumbing or wiring but they need a kick in the pants..

 

[pspec]

This is like some exercise set to apprentices. "How many examples of bad practice and poor workmanship can you identify in this system?"

I'll start the list with:

1. The circulation pump that is 'secured' in place with string.

IMO, whoever installed that system is clueless. It needs to be taken to pieces and redone properly by someone with the appropriate skil, l a G3 ticket and an ounce of professional pride.

if it wasn't mine I would laugh but it is so I wont..

he must of run out of clamps he use one just below the pump then I can only presume he went to the pub...

 

[Stigster]

The Temperature & Pressure relief (T&P) valve is piped up in plastic which is a big no no. Please for the love of all that is holy, tell me that the pipe reappearing round the back of the cylinder is not the same T&P discharge pipe? It is of a non-compliant material, it's too long, falls and rises again and God knows where it terminates.

I really want to see the Group inlet/Combination valve on the cold feed into this cylinder. Please tell me that there is one at least!

This job looks like it was done by a bloke I know, known in the local area as "Tectite Tony".

 

[ShaunCorbs]

The Temperature & Pressure relief (T&P) valve is piped up in plastic which is a big no no. Please for the love of all that is holy, tell me that the pipe reappearing round the back of the cylinder is not the same T&P discharge pipe? It is of a non-compliant material, it's too long, falls and rises again and God knows where it terminates.

I really want to see the Group inlet/Combination valve on the cold feed into this cylinder. Please tell me that there is one at least!

This job looks like it was done by a bloke I know, known in the local area as "Tectite Tony".

Would say there isn't one unless it's above the cylinder

 

[Old Account]

The plumber must have charged a fortune for materials... tectite fittings ain't cheap especially 22mm size, I also like the clip screwed into the dimplex cylinder ... it's a sign of someone just holds the ticket but ignores all regs and hasn't got a clue or someone not G3 at all.

As many engineers advised already you should get back to the installer to let him sort it only if he's G3 if not look for Simone who is

 

[Chalked]

Going to be a flood when the auto air vent falls down and the float turns into a sink!.
That needs ripping out and starting again.

 

[Best]

Is there a tundish - and if so, where? It must be clearly visible and within 600mm of the T&P relief valve.
That job is DIY looking and in fact probably could have been done (albeit illegally) better by a competent diyer who actually reads and tries to adhere to the basic MIs.
I am fearing the worst about the discharge pipe diameter size, materials and how it terminates.
That install needs a qualified decent plumber to remove it all and start again with most of the plumbing. No point in talking about the owner messing about with one minor problem. If this has been recently installed by someone claiming to be a plumber, then sue them