gas hob cp12 check or not ?????

[Billy Bob Bob]

I was always under the impression that walking inot any customers property and working on any gas appiance you assume responsibility for gas tightness. therefore, always carry out a test before you start and if there is a drop you find it before starting work? is this wrong?

no its right,we take responsabilty as the last competent person to visit

 

[fuzzy]

no its right,we take responsabilty as the last competent person to visit

Then we must complete a tightness test before and after work

 

[Puddle]

no its right,we take responsabilty as the last competent person to visit

No you do not any more, that is what has changed,you are responsible for just the appliance you have worked on,if you work on a boiler in the kitchen ,break a gas joint all you have to do is check that joint nothing else,if gas is pooring out the gas fire in the front room,thats officially not your problem any more unless pointed out to you or you smell it
So us people doing tightness tests are taking on extra responsibilities which we do not have to do and there is no way the big boys are going to do that,as said,time money over safety

We are going to get alot of changes over next few years,as the powers that be in,you guessed it,in Europe,are going through all the regs and trying to make standard throughout the union

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

No you do not any more, that is what has changed,you are responsible for just the appliance you have worked on,if you work on a boiler in the kitchen ,break a gas joint all you have to do is check that joint nothing else,if gas is pooring out the gas fire in the front room,thats officially not your problem any more unless pointed out to you or you smell it

when did they change it?somebody got a large fine not that long back for servicing a boiler but he wasnt told there was a flueless water heater in the kitchen it put occupants in hospital; and the hse done the rgi for not checking

 

[fuzzy]

No you do not any more, that is what has changed,you are responsible for just the appliance you have worked on,if you work on a boiler in the kitchen ,break a gas joint all you have to do is check that joint nothing else,if gas is pooring out the gas fire in the front room,thats officially not your problem any more unless pointed out to you or you smell it
So us people doing tightness tests are taking on extra responsibilities which we do not have to do and there is no way the big boys are going to do that,as said,time money over safety

We are going to get alot of changes over next few years,as the powers that be in,you guessed it,in Europe,are going through all the regs and trying to make standard throughout the union

when did it change and how where we told?

 

[GreenArmy]

Then we must complete a tightness test before and after work

Yes (and let-by)

 

[Puddle]

when did they change it?somebody got a large fine not that long back for servicing a boiler but he wasnt told there was a flueless water heater in the kitchen it put occupants in hospital; and the hse done the rgi for not checking

When they exactly changed rule,I do not know,as I still do tightness test before and after so does not interest me in using new rules but have checked last year and is correct
Often in these cases there is more than meets the eye,maybe they had seen it or occupants had mentioned something or he was doing as gas check and missed appliance ect
We are talking about tightness test,you have never been responsible for all appliances in property from just servicing one,as long as you have not seen it or have reason to believe anything is wrong,you do not go in every room after replacing a thermocouple and check if any appliances and ok

We all work or may work with regs way behind, as ref publications are apparently allowed to be up 6 months out of date, add that to when you read, you can be quite easily be quite far behind
Gas Safe has improved this by placing changes on their web site
I find myself checking every few weeks now

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

no thats fair enough,but we still have a duty of care

 

[GreenArmy]

when did they change it?somebody got a large fine not that long back for servicing a boiler but he wasnt told there was a flueless water heater in the kitchen it put occupants in hospital; and the hse done the rgi for not checking

Exactly gas man, lets not forget our responsibility to carry out the minimum criteria we should apply when we encounter gas appliances on which NO 'gas work' is undertaken. See Technical Bulletin 012 on Gas Safe website.

 

[fuzzy]

When they exactly changed rule,I do not know,as I still do tightness test before and after so does not interest me in using new rules but have checked last year and is correct
Often in these cases there is more than meets the eye,maybe they had seen it or occupants had mentioned something or he was doing as gas check and missed appliance ect
We are talking about tightness test,you have never been responsible for all appliances in property from just servicing one,as long as you have not seen it or have reason to believe anything is wrong,you do not go in every room after replacing a thermocouple and check if any appliances and ok

We all work or may work with regs way behind, as ref publications are apparently allowed to be up 6 months out of date, add that to when you read, you can be quite easily be quite far behind
Gas Safe has improved this by placing changes on their web site
I find myself checking every few weeks now

To do a tightness test we must turn off the gas at some point. Therefore we must re-establish supplies to the other appliances, when we do that we have to at least give them a visual check for any signs of spillage or such like.
I think the regs state we must test to the closest valve up and downstreem. that is usually the ECV, so if we run to the letter of the law as i interpret it, yes we have to follow the re-establishing supplies on all appliances for the simplest of jobs. Isnt that why we are so highly trained(lol) and charge a decent rate(double lol)

 

[stevetheplumber]

the upshot of all this is fit as many gas cocks as possible which will make life easier for us all in future

 

[kirkgas]

not me just the lazy ones who want to do bare minimum

just to clarify my stand on this, I quoted the law, not necerssarily what I do, but there are companies out there who comply with the law, albeit a mimimum it is their choice/contract agreement with client and not our decision, if they go above the law and find problems the client might not pay to have the work rectified so that leaves the super duper gas engineer with a problem of having isolated a gas supply that he shouldn'r have touched, as an example and sure to cause more outrage!! you do a TT on existing install, U6 meter, no smell or report of gas leak, you find 2mb drop, of those who have commented on poor standards of others, do you disconnect all appliances and prove the drop is on the carcass then have to repair or isolate, costing the customer money and inconvenience or do you comply with the law and leave the appliances on, my interpretation of allowable drop rate on existing install with existing appliances is that i can report as i find, i ALWAYS leave the appliances connected, report the 2mb drop on my paperwork, then advise the landlord/owner that further investigation could be costly and let them make the decision, also on some CP1/12 type forms it only asks for tightness test PASS/FAIL, not that any drop is recorded, I ALWAYS record any drop found so that the landlord/owner gets to decide what further action if any is carried out, a lot of people would find the 2mb drop and simply put PASS

I was always under the impression that walking inot any customers property and working on any gas appiance you assume responsibility for gas tightness. therefore, always carry out a test before you start and if there is a drop you find it before starting work? is this wrong?

yes you are wrong, read IGEUP1/B or tightness test procedure in your training book, there are set criteria where a TT must be done, but not every time you work on gas, but as is beoing discussed here it can be seen as best practice

To do a tightness test we must turn off the gas at some point. Therefore we must re-establish supplies to the other appliances, when we do that we have to at least give them a visual check for any signs of spillage or such like.
I think the regs state we must test to the closest valve up and downstreem. that is usually the ECV, so if we run to the letter of the law as i interpret it, yes we have to follow the re-establishing supplies on all appliances for the simplest of jobs. Isnt that why we are so highly trained(lol) and charge a decent rate(double lol)

the regs state we should test back to the nearest valve, when working on a gas fire as an example is is acceptable to disconnect the fire at the pedestal, remove the fire, refit and spray broken joints back to the pedestal with LDF, this fully complies with all relevant gas regs

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

just to clarify my stand on this, I quoted the law, not necerssarily what I do, but there are companies out there who comply with the law, albeit a mimimum it is their choice/contract agreement with client and not our decision, if they go above the law and find problems the client might not pay to have the work rectified so that leaves the super duper gas engineer with a problem of having isolated a gas supply that he shouldn'r have touched, as an example and sure to cause more outrage!! you do a TT on existing install, U6 meter, no smell or report of gas leak, you find 2mb drop, of those who have commented on poor standards of others, do you disconnect all appliances and prove the drop is on the carcass then have to repair or isolate, costing the customer money and inconvenience or do you comply with the law and leave the appliances on, my interpretation of allowable drop rate on existing install with existing appliances is that i can report as i find, i ALWAYS leave the appliances connected, report the 2mb drop on my paperwork, then advise the landlord/owner that further investigation could be costly and let them make the decision, also on some CP1/12 type forms it only asks for tightness test PASS/FAIL, not that any drop is recorded, I ALWAYS record any drop found so that the landlord/owner gets to decide what further action if any is carried out, a lot of people would find the 2mb drop and simply put PASS



yes you are wrong, read IGEUP1/B or tightness test procedure in your training book, there are set criteria where a TT must be done, but not every time you work on gas, but as is beoing discussed here it can be seen as best practice




the regs state we should test back to the nearest valve, when working on a gas fire as an example is is acceptable to disconnect the fire at the pedestal, remove the fire, refit and spray broken joints back to the pedestal with LDF, this fully complies with all relevant gas regs

fine,but i do go further when safety is concerned,tightness is the first thing i do,above the law i know,but i have a conscience,i can sleep at night ,thats what makes a gas engineer

 

[kirkgas]

fine,but i do go further when safety is concerned,tightness is the first thing i do,above the law i know,but i have a conscience,i can sleep at night ,thats what makes a gas engineer

what do you do in the scenario that i gave re finding a leak

i too am a good gas engineer, but i also know the law/regs and have to comply with my clients and contract restrictions

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

what do you do in the scenario that i gave re finding a leak

i too am a good gas engineer, but i also know the law/regs and have to comply with my clients and contract restrictions

and i am not suggesting your not!,but safety is paramount a tt takes seconds or if we want to be pedantic 2 minutes,better to know the state of play than to walk away if you find a leak you make safe,advise the customer and if they give permission you sort it out and bill them accordingly