should i have a room thermostat with my combi boiler.

[Worcester]

Nice guide! It's a few days old looking at the energy saving trust logo?

2003 though that bit hasn't been changed

 

[baileys]

Thanks guys but you havent really answered my question on the boiler interlock. When you GSE guys tick the box where it says boiler interlock provided what are you saying you have supplied or done.

 

[Ermintrude]

Installed a stat and programmer or a programmable stat. Page 8 of the guide

 

[tamz]

An interlock is an arrangement of controls that stops the boiler firing when there is no demand for heat ie when the house has warmed up.
Std trv's only do not fulfill this requirement as they could all be shut off and the boiler will still operate heating water in a loop of pipe.
A room stat does because it shuts the boiler off until the room cools down.

 

[Worcester]

WHen he has ticked that box he is saying that it has one and it is activated.

They danger here is that this person may be lying / being fraudulent. hence the links to the guides and building regs.

If he hasn't installed a room thermostat it is almost 100% certain that he hasn't actually done anything about the boiler interlock and just ticked the box.
In which case he is in breach of the building regulations.
He should also issue with a building regulations certificate. - Have you had one?

Have you got a room thermostat?
Have you got programmable trv's with a central controller? (or are they just 'twist the top' type)

 

[baileys]

Installed a stat and programmer or a programmable stat. Page 8 of the guide

So if i havent got a room stat, only rad thermostats then he shouldnt of ticked the box, is that what you are saying

 

[julesverne]

Yes.....

 

[baileys]

WHen he has ticked that box he is saying that it has one and it is activated.

They danger here is that this person may be lying / being fraudulent. hence the links to the guides and building regs.

If he hasn't installed a room thermostat it is almost 100% certain that he hasn't actually done anything about the boiler interlock and just ticked the box.
In which case he is in breach of the building regulations.
He should also issue with a building regulations certificate. - Have you had one?

Have you got a room thermostat?
Have you got programmable trv's with a central controller? (or are they just 'twist the top' type)

They are just twist knob ones as far as i know. i dont have a room thermostat because the plumber said i didnt need but but his mate the GSE who connected me said i did but he still ticked the box knowing i didnt have one.The only paperwork he has left me is the commissioning check list.

 

[Ermintrude]

So the boiler was installed by a non qualified engineer and signed off by another ? I would be calling gas safe!!

 

[baileys]

So the boiler was installed by a non qualified engineer and signed off by another ? I would be calling gas safe!!

Basically yes, the GSE did soldered the gas pipes and connect me but only because i told the plumber that he couldnt do it although he said he was competent. When i got his quote he told me that he got a GSE in to do the boiler but half way though the job he changed his mind.

I know ive done wrong so dont all have a go at me please, i dont have any backup so thats why im asking you guys for all the info because if i try and question my plumber he just makes me look a fool. The problem is ive known him and his entire family for years.

 

[Worcester]

You now know what your system should have and how it should be configured.

Tell the plumber that you need it done in accordance with the building regs.

If between then they wont, then report to Gas Safe, Building Control, and your local Citizens Advice Bureau, as they shouldn't be allowed to continue this bad practice.

Just dowload the document on this link TACMA launches its guide to the new 2010 Part L Regulations - BEAMA | News
print it out and show it to them....
document summary

 

[baileys]

You now know what your system should have and how it should be configured.

Tell the plumber that you need it done in accordance with the building regs.

If between then they wont, then report to Gas Safe, Building Control, and your local Citizens Advice Bureau, as they shouldn't be allowed to continue this bad practice.

Just dowload the document on this link TACMA launches its guide to the new 2010 Part L Regulations - BEAMA | News
print it out and show it to them....
document summary

He will charge me for the room stat because it wasnt in the quote, i just thought that i was getting everything that was needed. I rang the guy who connected the gas today and asked him why he had ticked the box that said boiler interlock provided, he said that its nothing to do with having a room stat and that it just means that you can turn the boiler off manually.

 

[basildog]

He will charge me for the room stat because it wasnt in the quote, i just thought that i was getting everything that was needed. I rang the guy who connected the gas today and asked him why he had ticked the box that said boiler interlock provided, he said that its nothing to do with having a room stat and that it just means that you can turn the boiler off manually.

He really knows his stuff then !!!!!!!!

 

[Scott_D]

Is it all working properly now?
Post up the quote

 

[mountainman]

I rang the guy who connected the gas today and asked him why he had ticked the box that said boiler interlock provided, he said that its nothing to do with having a room stat and that it just means that you can turn the boiler off manually.

That's a new one on me!

 

[baileys]

Is it all working properly now?
Post up the quote

No, the rads sound like they have got air in them, they are hissing but when i bleed them no air comes out. Its a very annoying noise.

 

[baileys]

That's a new one on me!

He really knows his stuff then !!!!!!!!

He does doesnt he. Im female and know very little about heating but i think i know a bit more than him.

 

[Nostrum]

As I said before

Your benchmark will be filled out (hopefully) and there is a requirement to provide interlock. A room stat is the simplest and most common way of doing this. I would be questioning whether you have chosen the right installer for the job if they do not recognise this requirement regardless of personal opinion. If we could pick and choose what reg's to abide by then it would make the job a lot easier but ..... Unregulated?

 

[Scott_D]

No, the rads sound like they have got air in them, they are hissing but when i bleed them no air comes out. Its a very annoying noise.

If I was you I would concentrate on getting everything working first. I think you should ask the fitter to come back and look at the noise/air issue.

 

[basildog]

A simple explanation ?
Boiler interlock is not a physical device but an arrangement of the system controls (room thermostats, programmable room thermostats, cylinder thermostats, programmers and time switches) so as to ensure that the boiler does not fire when there is no demand for heat. In a system with a combi boiler it can be achieved by fitting a room thermostat.
In a system with a regular boiler it can be achieved by correct wiring interconnection of the room thermostat, cylinder thermostat, and motorised valve(s). It may also be achieved by more advanced controls, such as a boiler energy manager. TRVs alone are not sufficient for boiler interlock

 

[baileys]

As I said before

i have questioned whether i did get the right installer but its a bit late now. I thought they were competent, how was i meant to know. The benchmark has been filled out as i said but he has ticked the box that says boiler interlock provided and as i said above he said its nothing to do with a room stat.

 

[baileys]

A simple explanation ?
Boiler interlock is not a physical device but an arrangement of the system controls (room thermostats, programmable room thermostats, cylinder thermostats, programmers and time switches) so as to ensure that the boiler does not fire when there is no demand for heat. In a system with a combi boiler it can be achieved by fitting a room thermostat.
In a system with a regular boiler it can be achieved by correct wiring interconnection of the room thermostat, cylinder thermostat, and motorised valve(s). It may also be achieved by more advanced controls, such as a boiler energy manager. TRVs alone are not sufficient for boiler interlock

This is what i read and tried to explain to him but he wont listen.

 

[Rickster123]

Then get rid of him. Cut your losses on it and get a professional in. I've followed your posts and I'm abit concerned about your install. Can you post pictures of the boiler install?

 

[baileys]

Then get rid of him. Cut your losses on it and get a professional in. I've followed your posts and I'm abit concerned about your install. Can you post pictures of the boiler install?

so am i worried. I dont want him to do anything to my heating anymore. I know i should cut my losses but im very angry for the situation he has put me in because i know his family well but i dont want to involve them as its not their problem.
I will post some pics, what exactly do you need to see.

 

[Rickster123]

I'd like to see the boiler, the flue, the pipework to the boiler and the gas meter please if poss.

 

[baileys]

I'd like to see the boiler, the flue, the pipework to the boiler and the gas meter please if poss.

Ok thanks, i will get my son to take some pics and post them, he will be home soon.

 

[baileys]

I'd like to see the boiler, the flue, the pipework to the boiler and the gas meter please if poss.

Here are the photos

 

[Rickster123]

The flue needs sealing inside and the pipework is extremely close to your electrics.
Is your gas meter next to the boiler cupboard? Where does the white waste pipe run to?

 

[Rickster123]

And you need the gas pipe earthed.

 

[baileys]

The flue needs sealing inside and the pipework is extremely close to your electrics.
Is your gas meter next to the boiler cupboard? Where does the white waste pipe run to?

The gas meter is in the cupboard next to the boiler and the white pipe goes into the sink waste.
I did ask if the boiler could leak as its so near the electrics and he said it shouldn't.

 

[Ermintrude]

He's basically taken your money and run. Your family is going to be affected by this so why not let his family know what an a$$hol£ they are related to. I would be reporting them both to gas safe. 1. The 'plumber' illegally installed appliance ( the gas pipe is not the only bit you must be gas safe registered for, who out of interest decommissioned, purged and capped old supply? )
2. The muppet who connected the gas and fraudulently filled in paperwork? Yes he commissioned it but he was complicit in the installation by the 'plumber'

 

[baileys]

He's basically taken your money and run. Your family is going to be affected by this so why not let his family know what an a$$hol£ they are related to. I would be reporting them both to gas safe. 1. The 'plumber' illegally installed appliance ( the gas pipe is not the only bit you must be gas safe registered for, who out of interest decommissioned, purged and capped old supply? )
2. The muppet who connected the gas and fraudulently filled in paperwork? Yes he commissioned it but he was complicit in the installation by the 'plumber'

I know, you are right in everything you say but the people i have spoken to about it just tell me to get someone else in. How do i know though that the next person is not going to rip me off and start wanting to replace things that dont need doing, its taken me a long time to save up for my heating.
Im also not the type of person to let someone get away with doing this to me, they are making me look stupid and its winding me up even more.
Ive tried explaining to them that i need a fulling working legal system but they think what they have done is ok, they dont see no wrong in it.

 

[Ermintrude]

Well . First thing is take some photographs of the work and we can all pick fault,,, but then actually give you a list which you must get sorted, a list if what you might like to get sorted and a list that you can sort?

Firstly as previously requested photos then some of the radiators.

Where are u located?

 

[basildog]

My advice would be to contact someone maybe from a reccomendation from here ask for a quote to bring up to spec and give the original guy say 7 days to correct or you will claim cost of work from him ?
A lot depends on whether it was a mates rates job or you have a full paperwork trail ?
Might be worth contacting Gas Safe you would have to ask the guys on here as I am not in that club and not sure I want to be !
Maybe post your quote if you have one you can hide the installers details .

 

[Ermintrude]

Why hide installers details ..... Unless they are mine ? Name and shame the doosh!

 

[Worcester]

I couldn't actually see any bonding, (earthing), certainly should have been tested to ensure Zs of earth terminal adequate. Also looks like none of the pipes are supported.

Ther are lots of reasons why your newly installed boiler isn't building regs compliant. Hope you haven't paid them in full yet.

Who is responsible for meeting the requirements of the Building Regulations?
Whoever carries out the building work should be responsible for ensuring that the work is compliant with the Building Regulations. Responsibility ultimately lies with the building owner though, who may be served a notice if work doesn't comply with the Building Regulations.

 

[basildog]

Is that an airbrick in picture 1 ?

 

[tamz]

I couldn't actually see any bonding, (earthing), certainly should have been tested to ensure Zs of earth terminal adequate.

Not in the scope of most gsr's as you know and no requirement to do so. Only requirement is to inform the householder to get it checked usually with a pre-printed card.

 

[baileys]

My advice would be to contact someone maybe from a reccomendation from here ask for a quote to bring up to spec and give the original guy say 7 days to correct or you will claim cost of work from him ?
A lot depends on whether it was a mates rates job or you have a full paperwork trail ?
Might be worth contacting Gas Safe you would have to ask the guys on here as I am not in that club and not sure I want to be !
Maybe post your quote if you have one you can hide the installers details .

I wouldn't call it mates rates as his quote was only a couple of hundred less than the other quotes i got. He only wrote the name of the boiler on the quote that he was installing. He did tell me that if i wasnt a friend then his price would of been three times the amount, i told him that he wouldn't of got the job then, so yes he thinks he has done me a good deal.
So basically im screwed, i will get over it soon but i hate the thought of him getting away with it. He is so smug, he sees no wrong in what he is doing.

 

[basildog]

This looks like a totally new installation to me with new wiring new gas meter etc ?
Whoever did the electrics would need to be certified ?

 

[tamz]

To the OP

Easy solution.
Ring both the plumber and the GSR who signed it off and telll them you are going to ring Gas Safe and ask for an inspection (the will do that for free).
If thy are wise, their rses will start twitching and they will be round sharpish to get you sorted.

 

[Ermintrude]

Just seen pictures . Fault 1 flue is too close to air vent, if bricks are 73 or 65mm the did stance is less than 300mm. Page 6 of boiler guide I think? Distance to opening or vent from a flue.

Fault 2 no eath on meter outlet.

Fault 3 flue looks to be poorly fitted into boiler and not sealed to brickwork.

Pipe work missing a few clips and it's very close to your electrics but they are less important.

I would anticipate that all ga safe would do is send installer a ncs letter and invite the 'plumber ' to join gas safe.

The flue and thermostat will require a gas safe engineer . Earth is a sparks job or qualified gas fitter.

You could remove air brick and replace with bricks or cement it over (looks poor tho)

 

[baileys]

Is that an airbrick in picture 1 ?

yep it is

 

[basildog]

Not sure on electrical regs as seems too many conflicting opinions so have always handed all over to the sparks they have the knowledge and right kit .
I was told you need part p but then to be copliant with part p you also need to be 17th edition and then electrical testing so really not sure just avoid and pass it on !

 

[baileys]

Just seen pictures . Fault 1 flue is too close to air vent, if bricks are 73 or 65mm the did stance is less than 300mm. Page 6 of boiler guide I think? Distance to opening or vent from a flue.

Fault 2 no eath on meter outlet.

Fault 3 flue looks to be poorly fitted into boiler and not sealed to brickwork.

Pipe work missing a few clips and it's very close to your electrics but they are less important.

I would anticipate that all ga safe would do is send installer a ncs letter and invite the 'plumber ' to join gas safe.

The flue and thermostat will require a gas safe engineer . Earth is a sparks job or qualified gas fitter.

You could remove air brick and replace with bricks or cement it over (looks poor tho)

I feel like ripping it all out and just open another bottle of wine!

 

[basildog]

yep it is

As Ermintrude says too close to flue terminal

 

[Mike Jackson]

Whereabouts are you? It's all very well commenting on pictures but there's nothing like seeing the installation in the flesh.

 

[basildog]

I feel like ripping it all out and just open another bottle of wine!

Lol Open the wine and chill as at the end of the day all can be easily sorted !

 

[baileys]

Whereabouts are you? It's all very well commenting on pictures but there's nothing like seeing the installation in the flesh.

J1 of the M3

 

[Worcester]

OK, so you saved a couple of hundred quid - (you've had more than a couple if hundred quids worth of advice for free fom here )

The plumber clearly isn't prepared to listen to you , so follow Tamz's advice above - it wont cost you a penny, AND will ensure you get a fully compliant system

If they don't fix it ALL within 7 days, then refuse them future access and spend the couple of hundred quite with a GSR fitter from this website, and I'm sure they'll put it right for you.

You'll then sleep well at night ( a couple of bottles of wime will do that too )