Scrap Metal Permit

[Jock Spanners]

Does anyone know the law on carrying waste metal from plumbing jobs to scrap yards?

I know that the new law requires me to provide a photo ID and be paid for scrap metal by BACS or cheque (not cash). However I am worried that if I am not registered to carry scrap my van insurance would be invalid and my van liable to seizure by the police. I also suspect that if I didn't declare the income from the scrap that I might get a visit from Revenue and Customs.

 

[mutley racers]

By law you need a waste carriers license. I was like you and worried about it since January, but as Mike Jackson on here says "it is only £150 for 3 yrs". And considering you get around 1500 a yr from it it is worth £50 a yr. And if you renew it, it is only £105. So no more being paranoid thinking a copper is going to jump me in the street as I put an old rad in the van. Relief!!!

 

[Jock Spanners]

I think I've found the answer. If I understand this correctly then I do need a waste permit and it will only cost me £154! This would apply to virtually every plumber I know

Environment Agency - Register as a waste carrier, broker or dealer

 

[Jock Spanners]

Thanks for that. The way I see it right now I've got a good amount to weigh in. It should just about cover the licence. I'll get the licence first and it will pay for itself. After that I can sleep easy.

 

[Jimbob]

Wow, I never heard of this before. Quite a good idea, might help crack down on scrap theft. Also might help from our point of view and discourage our tighter customer from taking there old scrap themselves.

 

[Masood]

Wow, I never heard of this before. Quite a good idea, might help crack down on scrap theft. Also might help from our point of view and discourage our tighter customer from taking there old scrap themselves.

Except... Isn't there ALWAYS an exception?!

If you are weighing in scrap from work in your own house, you don't need a waste carrier licence, so you can't scare the tighter customer that way, unfortunately. Still get paid by cheque, but also non-taxable.

As with so many of these rules, they only put pressure on legitimate and honest businesses, whilst leaving enough gaps and loopholes for those who want to dodge them..

 

[dancinplumba]

Except... Isn't there ALWAYS an exception?!

If you are weighing in scrap from work in your own house, you don't need a waste carrier licence, so you can't scare the tighter customer that way, unfortunately. Still get paid by cheque, but also non-taxable.

As with so many of these rules, they only put pressure on legitimate and honest businesses, whilst leaving enough gaps and loopholes for those who want to dodge them..

How do you prove it's from your house ? Just removed 5 cylinders, 5 boilers and 100 metres of copper from mine

 

[Masood]

How do you prove it's from your house ? Just removed 5 cylinders, 5 boilers and 100 metres of copper from mine

Well, exactly! My scrappy told me about the "own house" rule. I've been doing up my bathroom for over a year now. Amazing how many old boilers, cylinders and pipework you can find in a 3-bed flat...

 

[jase158]

Its not waste though, its valuable metal, I aint registering. £154 for a piece of paper, rip off. As far as I see it, its business activity, I am selling the copper not disposing of it.

 

[Mike Jackson]

it doesn't matter what you classify it as or think it is. The government have classified it as construction debris and if you get stopped carrying it and have no waste licence you are liable to be fined and could possibly have your vehicle confiscated.

Also do you never clear any rubbish away from a job? If you remove any rubbish from a job you need a waste transfer licence. Dumping the rubbish in the customers bin is not very professional.

 

[jase158]

I buy materials and sell it to the customer, do I need a permit for that? all big jobs, rubbish goes in skip, small jobs, rubbish goes in my bin. copper goes from there house to mine, so this is left over materials, then from my house to scrappy, so personal waste. I got stopped the other day and when they asked me what was in the back, I said trade waste, they never mentioned this at all, doubt they would take your van away for carrying scrap, unless you had a lot of lead and a church had been robbed half hour ago, from a church down the road. I think it is an environment agency problem rather then a police problem. scrap yard don't ask for it, police don't ask for it, so I will not be wasting £150.

 

[Mike Jackson]

If you're happy to continue working outside the law then I'll shed no tears if you get pulled up and fined. It's VOSA who do the pulling over and vehicles have been crushed in Kent. I'll happily pay less than a £1 a week to stay on the right side of the law.

 

[jase158]

hmm, have to beg to argue with that last comment as states on website that businesses don't have to comply yet, they have to be compliant by January 2014

 

[jase158]

And I can't see Vosa stopping people, they deal with Tax and MOT, not waste transfer. they will probably wait outside scrappies etc, but the way I see it is "am I dumping on the streets?" No, so that's my duty over. When they stop people from dumping on the streets and do there own recycling then I will comply, until then good luck to them. I am leaving this conversation now as I don't think we will ever agree.

 

[Mike Jackson]

hmm, have to beg to argue with that last comment as states on website that businesses don't have to comply yet, they have to be compliant by January 2014

That's for some businesses that are not already required to comply. The constructon industry has had to comply since the regulations first came into force but you just keep burying your head in the sand and hope the nasty VOSA men don't catch up with you.

 

[Mike Jackson]

And I can't see Vosa stopping people, they deal with Tax and MOT, not waste transfer. they will probably wait outside scrappies etc, but the way I see it is "am I dumping on the streets?" No, so that's my duty over. When they stop people from dumping on the streets and do there own recycling then I will comply, until then good luck to them. I am leaving this conversation now as I don't think we will ever agree.

VOSA regularly pull vans over down this way, they are also checking for overloading, vehicle defects etc.

 

[jase158]

ooh, Just had a look in the van and I am breaking the law (pic 2)

 

[lame plumber]

carrying a new ferrolli boiler, is that scrap or goods to be installed ?

 

[Plum Bob 66]

By law you need a waste carriers license. I was like you and worried about it since January, but as Mike Jackson on here says "it is only £150 for 3 yrs". And considering you get around 1500 a yr from it it is worth £50 a yr. And if you renew it, it is only £105. So no more being paranoid thinking a copper is going to jump me in the street as I put an old rad in the van. Relief!!!

You've no chance of that how many coppers do you see in the streets, and how many of them have been briefed in the waste carrying laws and can be bothered with the amount of paper work that will follow from feeling your collar
One other thing the scrap metal merchant is not obliged to ask you to present your licence.

 

[Millsy 82]

carrying a new ferrolli boiler, is that scrap or goods to be installed ?

Thats scrap for sure and I think even the scrap man will laugh at you for buying that rubbish.

 

[Millsy 82]

I wonder how many large companies have these licences and Is it just one for the whole company or per van?

 

[Reg Man]

Just had three lads pick up my redundant 500gallon steel oil tank from a compartment built in under my house, what an absolute devil to get out, but Levi and his mates did it and got it away. Gave them £20 for some Beer's. I bet they had a licence and were registered with all the appropriate agencies. At least I am happy as this compartment will now be converted into a wine cellar.:wink5:

 

[Nostrum]

Most firms have them as they belong to industry standard bodies and compliance with ISO etc always brings this to light.

the whole point is that if you CARRY waste you need a license, what you do with it at the end doesn't really make any odds unless you transfer it to someone else, then you need a transfer note.

90% probably don't have one, and most don't even know about the rules. They are unlikely to crush your van, more likely fine you if in a bad mood.

seems extortionate really, £150 for a piece of paper no one is ever going to look for unless your on a massive contract.

 

[snowhead]

copper goes from there house to mine, so this is left over materials, then from my house to scrappy, so personal waste.

If it was previously fitted in a building it's Construction Waste and falls under Licence controls.

Unless it's your own building it was removed from.

 

[clarky101]

I got stopped because the van was sign written and the lot that stopped me were quite nasty when the police moved off and told me if I hadn't got the licence within 28 days they would come at me, all the lads I grizzled to about it all had sign written vans & all had the licence.....now my two mates that don't have sign written vans have never been stopped or bothered to get the licence...