New burner

[Robert Tyrrell]

OK - I have to admit it - having a 'Long' break from all this stuff is really causing me headaches and I need some help
I have a customer that has a Trianco Eurostar 100/125 external oil boiler (C2008) and I cannot get the burner to work. I have managed to determine that the control box was faulty and I've replaced that, but although I can get voltage (Tested using my Fluke voltage checker) at the different parts of the burner it won't run at all. Now the only thing I can think of that I haven't checked is the motor, and I probably should have but I can't remember for the life of how to do that so i have two questions really:
1 - how the hell do you test the parts independently?
2 - just in case; what might be the replacement burner for this boiler because the one that's in it at the moment has Trianco Max written on it and that's about it.

Yes I am OFTEC and I've had my audit as well.

Big thanks in advance blah blah blah

 

[SimonG]

What happens when you turn it on. Does it make any noises?

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

Non whatsoever.

 

[Dickie]

Another example of OFTEC being a complete waste of money!! Have you tested the capacitor mate?

 

[SimonG]

Pump jammed? Doesn't even buzz? Checked high limit?

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

Pump jammed? Doesn't even buzz? Checked high limit?

Thanks, I have checked for continuity at high limit and there is a voltage on both sides. Same goes for the frost stat. Pump seems to spin ok by hand as does the fan. I haven't come across this burner before as I only used to work on Grants. This has got me well and truly stumped and I need to finish the job because its a friend of my wife and (a) I need to get paid for the install, commission, etc (b) I'm going on holiday soon and don't want to have to sort it out when I get back.

 

[Bunker]

I don't understand, you say you have a customer with a Trianco external and you can't get it to work, latterly you are saying you want payment on the install and commission. Are you saying you've fitted it but can't get it to work?

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

Sorry, should have explained myself a bit more clearly. It's an old boiler that he brought to the property when he moved. I had to swap an internal boiler out for an external one. The external one is the Trianco. The internal was a Worcester. I've installed the boiler, zoned the system, checked everything works (on the water side), which it does, apart from the firing of the boiler as I can't get it to run.
I have removed the burner and attempted to 'bench test' by fitting a switched direct live to the control 'box', which holds the boiler control ( on, low, medium, high), the high limit stat, and the frost stat. There was no power at the Satronic control box so I've swapped it for a new one. I now get power across the terminals inside the Satronic. I get power to the individual components (at the connection with their leads) but still nothing. I have removed the photo cell and tested. I've checked to make sure that the pump and fan turn, which they do. Ive checked for voltage at the transformer as well. Still nothing. The only thing I haven't tested is the solenoid because I can't remember how to.
it looks like a Bentone burner but I'm not certain and there are no marks apart from Trianco, and the word Max on the cover.
i hope that's made things a bit clearer.

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

Another example of OFTEC being a complete waste of money!! Have you tested the capacitor mate?

I don't think that OFTEC is a waste of time, it's more to do with the regs than practical stuff, and if you read the bottom of my posts you will see that I've had a long time off the job, there's a lot of stuff that I just don't remember, including how to check the capacitor/solenoid.
i used to have the facility to just get from from the store & swap it out so I could check it worked. As I'm on my own now, and cash flow is a problem, I don't have that luxury.
cheers for the advice though.

 

[SimonG]

So you've stripped out an internal Worcester and installed a second hand external trianco?

Did the cust tell you that the trianco worked before?

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

Yep - apparently it worked at his house in surrey, but that was in 2008!

 

[Dickie]

If there's no buzzing or anything from the burner then it must be a broken or loose wire somewhere. Have you a Voltstick? It'll detect a broken wire.

To my uncertain knowledge we don't need OFTEC here in Scotland, so that's another useless money drain removed from any installers list.

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

I've got a Fluke T110 voltage tester and I've used it on all th e connections that I can find. They all have continuity, which suggests a component but how does one test the components?

 

[SimonG]

Is e burner generating a spark? Could be that your new control box is faulty. Just because something is new and out the box doesn't mean that it's 100%

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

Thanks Simon but as I pointed out; I have power at the control box yet nothing turns, sparks, runs etc and I think that at this point I would really like to get a reminder of how to test the individual parts so I could make a decision as to wether or not it needs replacing as a complete unit. I've already been in touch with Riello and have yet to check out the info

 

[lame plumber]

best advice i can give is to call the boiler manufacturers help line for exact specs and results to expect, i know when i had a similar issue with a firebird their lad was brilliant

 

[Bunker]

Just a thought, the external would have had a permanent live, for the frost stat - you have put that in aswell as a switched?

 

[Dickie]

I've got a Fluke T110 voltage tester and I've used it on all th e connections that I can find. They all have continuity, which suggests a component but how does one test the components?

My advice on test equipment, get a good quality auto range multimeter mate like a Fluke 116. They are worth their weight in gold.

 

[kimbo]

I would say it is very difficult to advise anyone on whatvyou have said. It vould be any number of things. If you need to check the motor just wire it in to a plug. Why would you ring riello gor an ecoflam burner. When power is applied to the burner the motor should turn for the post purge so is there power from the control box to the motor.

 

[Dotty]

Take the oil pump off and see if the motor spins then.

 

[Bunker]

This might be of interest to you although testing the coil wont help the motor start:

Oil burner training clip.mpg - YouTube

 

[Dickie]

Thanks bunker that's a good wee video.
Talking of videos & testing burners, I found this one on my Utube channel & I think the guy makes a great job of explaining the use of a multimeter, I hope it helps;
How to use a multimeter for HVAC part 5 - YouTube

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

Thanks for the info but still none the wiser - that's what you get when you take time out I suppose. The wiring diagramme tells me that the permanent live should be fitted to their respective terminals but then there's a switched live that feeds the stats (Missed that) but i can't work out weber this power comes from (I'm not on site at the moment so I can't see it , and believe me I need to see it so I can work it out ).
I take it that the switched live should come form the choc block when heat or hot water is called for? If this is the case then I will have to run another cable as I've only got T&E.

 

[Bunker]

but then there's a switched live that feeds the stats (Missed that)

You're very welcome.

 

[WHPES]

The only way is just to narrow it down. There's not exactly that many electrical components on a burner to check. Will the burner start running if you spin the motor when energised? Test the motor separately. I would think it's probably a bad connection somewhere. Like it has been said you need a good multimeter.

 

[Robert Tyrrell]

OK - I think that this thread is done now. I used the multimeter to check the motor (Once I'd added the PL) and found that the teminal connector was not attached to the lead properly so it was giving intermittent power supply.
It ended up being a faulty Satronic box, a broken terminal, and of course my embarrassing (Very) missed out PL :blush5:.
It all seems to be working at the moment so I'm taking the burner back to site, possibly tomorrow, to fit and check again. Then I can commission the boiler and get paid

 

[SimonG]

It's not over til the fat bird sings Let us know how you get on.

 

[Dickie]

I'm glad you got sorted Bob, and I'm pleased you, like most of us, learned to use a multimeter which is an invaluable tool for sorting many boiler & controls problems.

 

[simon0703]

I skipped through, you bled the oil lines through, simple but the last thing u check