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Sorry guys not explaining myself to today, got a stinking cold & chest infection, the £12 - £14 usely comes up almost every year from large Co taking on council contracts, The £45 is an average price in the Plymouth area for CP12 work, but people are doing it for less in the City, because it is over run with 100s of gas guys chasing the work, I was referring to doing council work, that I was doing about 5 years ago & they did at the time send one of their office guys around to time how long the jobs took, maybe not in your area but it did go on in Plymouth, No I didn't say my rate was £14, although I know of some that are charging less than that, I don't put up on here what I charge that's my business & not open for discussion, + I don't work the Plymouth area, Dartmoor and surrounding areas is my domain, You must remember the South West is not the highest paid Region to work in, when I moved back from Berkshire I had to take a big hit in earnings.