is landlord loosing the plot

[beesley121]

Hi guys,

do do work for a landlord that was apparent one of the biggest private landlord in wales, he's not now but still has properties. He under the impression that even if I isdue him with a landlord cert with an AR on, he is ok because he's had the cert done in the first place.

I dint bormally ally give him a very until I've fixed what causing the AR but he wants it as he's saying he's not going to fix it as others have passed it of in the past

surely he can't be right? But is there somewhere I can point him to to explain

 

[beesley121]

This is what he want me to issue cert for with AR on

 

[Leo21]

If you've document the AR, the balls in his court. If anything goes **** up, it's on his head. Whatever you do, keep a copy of the cert. write a recorded letter or email him the fact that the boilers AR.

 

[beesley121]

So by law he does not have to do anything and for now, he has legally completed all he has to do by law. Is that what your saying?

however if something does go wrong, he doesn't have a leg to stand on

correct?


Think its stupid if that's the case

 

[Leo21]

So by law he does not have to do anything and for now, he has legally completed all he has to do by law. Is that what your saying?

however if something does go wrong, he doesn't have a leg to stand on

correct?


Think its stupid if that's the case

Thats how I understand it, yes.

 

[IDCHAPPY]

Surely that louver door doesn't lead anywhere?? goddam stupid if so.

 

[Leo21]

Surely that louver door doesn't lead anywhere?? goddam stupid if so.

Be funny if it did.

 

[beesley121]

Into gas meter cupboard which is then inside house.

area is a proper **** hole, can't belive I'm working there ha

 

[The Goose]

I was under the impression that as its a legal requirement to have a current cp12 on rented properties that he would still need the one with the AR on it to comply.
The fact that it has AR written on it is neither here or there. He would be breaking the law if he did not have a current CP12.

In a similar scenario imagine there was a gas fire and a boiler there and there was a problem with the gas fire and it was AR. He would still need a CP12 and it should detail any faults etc.
Also the CP12 covers other stuff too eg tightness test

My understanding of a CP12/LGSR is that its not a pass or a fail or anything inbetween. Its a report about the condition of the gas installation at the time of inspection. Good or bad.

If he decides to do anything about it or the tenants decide to complain to him or agents etc is their issue.

On the other side of the coin he may be seeing it as your way of getting a bit of leverage to get work out of him.

If it was me I would issue it with faults etc included and let him decide. Often if its mentioned to the tenants they can apply pressure from their side to get something done.

 

[Leo21]

That's the bit that landlords don't get. They think because they've got a llc its job done, regardless of what's on it. Once you've informed them it's there problem.

 

[The Goose]

So by law he does not have to do anything and for now, he has legally completed all he has to do by law. Is that what your saying?

however if something does go wrong, he doesn't have a leg to stand on

correct?


Think its stupid if that's the case

I would imagine its one of those things thats only a problem if and when it goes wrong...............

 

[AWheating]

in theroy the landlord is covered if the tennant uses the appliance after you have issued a warning notice then its them at fault and not the landlord.

The tennant has to complain to landlord, gas safe etc.... till the fault is fixed. Its the landlords job to provide heat and hot water im guessing.

the landlord is only at fault if he/she removes the label and does not inform the tennant they cant not use the applaince.

make sure the tennant gets copies of all certs and advise about contacting landlord, CA, gas safe, etc...

 

[Leo21]

I reckon the landlords love liable once he's received the information. The cp 12 is just proof.

 

[village idiot]

As stated,a CP12 is exactly what it is. Even if you have to fail the appliances, you still have to issue the cert detailing all the defects found as well as the remedial actions or advice provided. All of these should be recorded on the document.
I have some customers who have foreign students (Russia, France, Italy, the lot) in their homes. The school and agents require a CP12. In a few cases, I have issued the CP12 recording defects and informing them what needs doing to rectify it. Come the following year, the same applies as they have done nothing about it?

 

[beesley121]

I spoke to gas safe a few months ago and they said something is in the pipeline regarding AR's. I pointed out that a appliance is either safe or not, there should be no inbetween. They are removing the AR somehow but only on certain things. That was my take on it anyway.

As as for landlords, I think it should be more strict as they will do anything to save a few quid

 

[lame plumber]

if the cp12 states its at risk then the appliance should be turned off as its dangerous to use, if the landlord is then allowing the tenant to use the appliance then he is breaking the gas regs and liable to prosecution by hse, whats the point of saying its liable to cause injury if then nothing is done!! If you know the landlord is allowing an aplliance to be used then riddor him or report him to hse for them to take him on.

 

[Leo21]

That's ID , not AR. At risk is what it says, at risk of being dangerous.

 

[firemant]

It is amazing how many guys have no real understanding of the CP12 regime: do the inspection, record the findings. categorise any faults and complete appropriate warning notices and labels. Issue CP12. Get paid. Wait for any further remedial work. Move on.

too many guys talking of holding back the certs until remedials completed.

 

[goz666]

My understanding of a CP12/LGSR is that its not a pass or a fail or anything inbetween. Its a report about the condition of the gas installation at the time of inspection. Good or bad.

Spot on there goose, it's just a report. Methinks it's the landlords who need the training, they somehow believe that once that ''report'' or as they believe ''CERTIFICATE'' is in their hands this then gives them another twelve months to point the finger at the GSR fitter who did it and say ''I employed him to make sure everything is safe so it's his fault''.

Like you said it's a report for that time and date, nothing more than that.

 

[emerald]

my understanding is with At Risk you are to turn off the gas WITH the permission of the client/owner, they have the right to refuse permission. either way they get a certificate, and warning notices with what you have found. obviously if its ID you just turn it off, make safe, if they chuck you out you call gas emergency services who will cut them off

 

[Leo21]

my understanding is with At Risk you are to turn off the gas WITH the permission of the client/owner, they have the right to refuse permission. either way they get a certificate, and warning notices with what you have found. obviously if its ID you just turn it off, make safe, if they chuck you out you call gas emergency services who will cut them off

Thats how I read it as well.

 

[The Goose]

my understanding is with At Risk you are to turn off the gas WITH the permission of the client/owner, they have the right to refuse permission. either way they get a certificate, and warning notices with what you have found. obviously if its ID you just turn it off, make safe, if they chuck you out you call gas emergency services who will cut them off

I thought AR was turn off at the controls rather than turn off the gas?

 

[Millsy 82]

my understanding is with At Risk you are to turn off the gas WITH the permission of the client/owner, they have the right to refuse permission. either way they get a certificate, and warning notices with what you have found. obviously if its ID you just turn it off, make safe, if they chuck you out you call gas emergency services who will cut them off

What I have been told is that if it is at risk then with the permission of the responsible person/user which is the tenant as they are the ones putting their lives at "potential" risk by using the appliance. Then the appliance is turned of at controls not at the gas labelled and warning notice.

If the landlord doesn't want to do anything that is up to them as long as you have the paperwork to cover yourself then if something happens it's not your fault and it's his.