Gas Pipe in wall?

[brk1]

I'm trying to get my kitchen totally prepared before I call the RGI in to do the work needed. My cooker is still fed by a surface mounted lead gas pipe running down the wall behind the cooker (highly safe I know), I'm going to rip out the old kitchen, then refit another but totally update the kitchen, I want the gas pipe chased into the wall if its allowed/possible, I know it needs protecting in a sleeve, the problem is the wall the cooker is on is only a 4" brick party wall, I can chase in the legal amount of 1/3 max wall thickness, would it be possible to fit it in a steel 25mm sleeve using 15 mm copper, that way it's protected from both sides ,just in case the neighbour stuck a screw in from their side not knowing of the pipe, 15mm would be more gas than what it's gettin now, theres already a proper 22 mm feed in the ceiling that goes to the boiler on the opposite wall, there's not actually anything else being added to the system, just removing the old lead and replacing with copper instead, would 25 mm electrical conduit be suitable or is there a proper steel barrel as they call it be needed, would the copper still need denso tape around inside the steel sleeve, I'm trying to prepare everything for a one off visit from the installer, easily possible if I've done all the leg work, I don't want a new kitchen with surface mounted gas pipes, nor can it be fitted inside a boxing in a corner, just not possible in that kitchen.

Thanks if anybody has any good advice or a better solution

 

[TGor]

Let the competent person from RGI determine the requirements for the gas supply pipework that is after all their job .. as for the party wall being 4" it is more likely to be 9" and therefore thick enough to avoid the problems you anticipate .. however check out the "Party Wall Act" as you may need to notify prior to any chasing.

 

[DIY Bob]

I'll leave it to the experts to advise you on mechanical protection for your gas pipe, but I'd be surprised if you only had a 4" party wall between you and your neighbour (unless perhaps it's a flat in a converted house). Party walls are usually 11" cavity, or 9" solid in olderr properties.

 

[brk1]

It's definately only a 4" soft red brick wall, it's a 1900 semi and you can clearly see when you come in your front door that there's only a single brick in between the houses, so thats 4" plus about 15 mm of plaster each side of the wall, its one where they didn't even bother to shut of the roof spaces, that's why I'm concerned as to what could be done with it. I'll give the neighbours notice although I was never ever given any when the previous owner did some work, but shouldn't have any problems there.

 

[DIY Bob]

Oh I see. You will have to be very careful with your chasing then, otherwise you'll be shaking hands with your neighbour through the wall... If it's possible, you might want to consider bringing the gas pipe down in a cupboard or somewhere where it's not visible and then running it round below worktop level to the cooker.

 

[brk1]

I won't have a problem with the chasing, I can bring a chasing machine home from work, they connect up to a vacuum and cut a series of slots very close together, no problem with a comb chisel to simply tap out the little remnants of red brick after that, It was just wanting to know what I could do for the RGI before they came to fit the new pipe, taking down inside a cuboard will honestly be more work than it would involve at the moment, my kitchen is on a lower level than the rest of the house as is the bedroom right above it, the gas mains is already next to where the old lead pipe is, to go back to a further point in the run will introduce lots more joints etc into the gas run and would have to be surface mounted behind fridges etc, running under the floor won't work either i'm afraid, any drop in the kitchen would have to be surface fitted if I can't chase it in somehow, I don't intend doing the work myself ,just all the prep work if its possible in my situation, If it can't be chased in, I might as well not bother at all and just decorate the lead gas pipe with fresh paint, It wouldn't look any worse than a copper pipe coming down the wall somewhere else and being painted as well.

 

[nysk2008]

dont forget clearences from cooker/hob to combustible surfaces with the new kitchen

 

[brk1]

Thanks but that's not an issue, I'm actually leaving a space for my free standing cooker to go back into, rather than built in, that oven has a glass lid on top of it that's the whole width of the oven and when open is more than 500mm above the flames, so no wall units ,pelmets etc can overhang the cooker space or the lid won't open, and iof the lid doesn't open the gas doesn't come on, so If I ever move and take my oven with me the space will still meet all the legal requirements

 

[nysk2008]

good luck

 

[sparra1100]

you carnt use steel pipe to act as a sleeve it will rot the copper in no time and carnt be in any cavitys

 

[REDSAW]

imo, its a non starter.

can you go under the floor

 

[brk1]

That's what I'm trying to find out, and don't have a cavity, it's a solid 4 1/2 red brick wall between me and my neighbour with plaster on each side, I don't have much to work with I know, but what other options are there? Some other type of metal conduit? must be strong enough to stop penetration from foreign objects, probably never would get hit but cannot rely on that small chance that it might, was hoping to sort something out before I Called the RGI in, didn't want them charging me for 2 visits.

Sorry redsaw, just saw your post after I posted this, to go under the floor It would have to come out past all the heating pipes etc on one side of the wall, dowm to the floor chop through the concrete then up the other side, then I couldn't get my washing machine back against the wall, as from my earlier posts, going back towards the meter to make a join puts me on a different house level for both kitchen and bedroom above adding many more joints/elbows etc to the situation. If it's not possible to sink into a chase then obviously I'll have to seek other options moving sounds like it would be easier :lol:

 

[sparra1100]

yes i read you dont have a cavity was just saying plus suppose plasterboard using dry wall would be a cavity so you would have to use dry wall adesive all the way up alongside the gas pipe so no gaps

 

[brk1]

If I was to drywall the front of the wall I could solidly bond around the pipe, but that won't stop a stray drill bit coming from my neighbours house by accident,there would be no protection at the back of the pipe, I know he did something to his kitchen before he sold it to the new neighbours, don't know if they've made any alterations since, I haven't been in the house since he moved out, I don't know if they cook with gas or electric, I know their oven is on the same wall as mine would be and someone was banging hell out of the party wall one day, don't know if they chased into wall that side for any reason, maaybe there already a gas pipe lurking in the brickwork already that I don't know about.

Thankyou everybody for any help offered so far aswell

 

[dontknowitall]

Wait till the neighbours go out then fit it on their wall and drill a hole through to your side ...

 

[sparra1100]

instead of asking us wouldnt it be easyer to go and ask him

 

[Jonwells]

To be honest, get involved with a gas safe engineer NOW. get them in to give a quote for the work you require, if you still have lead gas service pipework, there maybe more important issues that you can't see, that need to be addressed, as doing the job twice is a waste of life. Jon

 

[fuzzy]

you carnt use steel pipe to act as a sleeve it will rot the copper in no time and carnt be in any cavitys

Use copper

 

[brk1]

Thanks Johnwells, probably going to get a long time no see mate involved, he runs his own plumbing company and I'm sure he'll be gas safe registered or one of his team will be, as far as I know the cooker gas is the last bit the lead is actually a live feed to, it comes from the meter in 28mm up into my bedroom, somewhere there must be an old branch from copper to lead thats been patched into it to keep that bit of lead live, have two gas fires both in copper that never get used, one wall heater upstairs in that main bed, again it's never used and the boiler is also already in copper, will have to see what he says about them.

Thanks Fuzzy,could use copper but didn't think it would be hard enough to stop a stray drill bit if it ever got hit, probably easier to find a needle in a haystack than drill through the wall at the exact point but s*** happens, it's for future residents I was thinking of.

It doesn't matter to me what they've done their side,I just needed a safe solution for my side, looks like I'll have to have another crap looking surface mounted gas pipe and box it in at worktop level so nobody can see it easily apart from above kitchen units,not ideal in a new kitchen but seems my only solution then !!

 

[bengal lancer]

refer to regs.

 

[sparra1100]

if your gunner use your logic mate were he mite drill thro the wall or someone at a later date then what if shelves or a kitchen was fitted on the neigbours side you have holes everywere carnt really see the worry plus you have to get someone gsr anyway to sort the pipe

 

[shorticus]

1/2" barrell with corrosion protection then made good into wall with no gaps, simples

 

[kay-jay]

if wall is only 4inch thick i'd just bring the wall out enough to cover your pipe stud and board or dot and dab boarding, thus making your own cavity you can then mesh the back of the pipe if you are really wanting to protect from screws from other side

 

[shorticus]

if wall is only 4inch thick i'd just bring the wall out enough to cover your pipe stud and board or dot and dab boarding, thus making your own cavity you can then mesh the back of the pipe if you are really wanting to protect from screws from other side

sorry to disagree Kay-Jay but if you do that you're then breaking Reg19 unless you then sleeve/duct the pipe and ventilate said enclosure

 

[brk1]

1/2" barrel sounds what I'm looking for shorticus, I could chase, chop of old and re-plaster the whole wall, that's not a problem if needed,the kitchen is small enough without losing anymore to dot and dab or even 2" x 1" batten then plasterboard ,anywhere I could find the in and outs on the barrel procedures,I reckon I'll get my mate to strip out the old lead mains then he can connect onto the boiler gas pipe come across the kitchen then drop down the same wall in 1/2" barrel where I'm concerned about the protection of the pipe, what's best form of corrosion protection on this stuff, it's in soft red brick that sucks up water like a tissue, just want to get all chases etc ready before I call him in

 

[shorticus]

1/2" barrel sounds what I'm looking for shorticus, I could chase, chop of old and re-plaster the whole wall, that's not a problem if needed,the kitchen is small enough without losing anymore to dot and dab or even 2" x 1" batten then plasterboard ,anywhere I could find the in and outs on the barrel procedures,I reckon I'll get my mate to strip out the old lead mains then he can connect onto the boiler gas pipe come across the kitchen then drop down the same wall in 1/2" barrel where I'm concerned about the protection of the pipe, what's best form of corrosion protection on this stuff, it's in soft red brick that sucks up water like a tissue, just want to get all chases etc ready before I call him in

barrell's not really a diy job, your gas fitter should be capable of doing it for you if he's worth his salt, as for protection you can't beat denso tape although it's horrible stuff to work with and may stain through the new plaster

 

[brk1]

I don't intend doing it myself,I just want to get all the prep work done,Is there anyway of sealing the Denso tape at all, spraying with stainblock etc, covering it in bonding rather than sand and cement? I've got so much to do in that kitchen it's unbelievable, got a lath and plaster ceiling to come down, the whole kitchen wants at least a re-skim, total re-plastering at some parts, the idiots who built the bathroom extension on the back of the house got the floor levels wrong, the bathroom floor is actually about 40mm higher than the kitchen floor level,I've raise the lobby floor up to the correct level, just got to get the kitchen floor sorted now but there wasn't enough space to run the pipework under that screed, maximum depth about 45mm, it's even touch and go whether that will stay down properly, so while I'm making a mess I just want to get everything chopped out at once and cleaned away while I'm taking time off work, that way I won't upset the neighbours too much with constant banging everyday even if it's not directly on the party wall, so much to do with Xmas fast approaching as well