Boiler fault finding trainng

[jake14]

Hi all this is my first post. I have just started on my own doing plumbing and heating. I have been a plumber for 16 years and gas safe for 10 years. I do all pluming work, gas installs ,services and fix heating ie broken pump ,mot valve or other simple things but what im struggling with is fixing problems inside boilers. My old work didnt do boiler repairs so i have no experience or training on boiler repairs and fault finding. Where can i get training for this ? i live in aberdeen scotland

 

[shorticus]

Hi Jake, best training course for such things in my experience were Baxi, not sure if they have any centres near you though, also look out for the books by John Reginald, very well written and a really good start
Chris

 

[jake14]

ok thanks chris i will look into that

 

[Jonwells]

Jake, if possible sign up for the different manufacturers courses, they can be free and sometimes the notes you get are great, I've been on 7 and all are good, if your not sure on fault finding always ring manufacturers technical, problem is, some are premium rate and you need to be in office hours, but be in front of the boiler with your gas safe number and they will talk you through it. Jon

 

[jake14]

I tried phoning a manufactures once before and didnt have the right tools as i never do boiler repairs. The guy asked me to check if there was a live coming from the pcb to the fan but i didnt have the correct tool for the job as i have never needed to do anything like this before as anything to do with electrics was done by the electrican who worked for the same firm as me. This is why i would like some training and advice on whats the best tools to buy for fault finding.

 

[moogwai]

A good multimeter mate.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

 

[1crackhead]

I just usually go through the fault finding flow diagrams in the MI's and usually the technical helplines. Although I think its scandalous the premium rate phone numbers some manufacturer's have. It aint cheap when calling from a mobile!

A multimeter def helps and a 25 quid job from screwfix will do for most fault finding.

Btw how do we get the free courses from the manufacturers? Are any in london? :yesnod:

 

[shorticus]

A good multimeter mate.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk

yep that's an absolute must, I'v got a Socket & See DM240, which was specifically designed for us and is the Mutts Nutts IMO. Most Electrical testers will swear by Fluke and few other makes but the DM240 serves me well.
Which ever one you buy make sure it an autoranging one.
Then get a plug in socket tester (this is your first test before even looking at the boiler)
A glow stick (always handy)
And probably a clamp meter for current readings too

 

[gasmarc]

where do you use a clamp meter Shorticus ?. The socket tester is great but very rarely use it but one job would pay for it, you need a meter that needs hrtz on it from memory for measuring fans speeds

 

[shorticus]

where do you use a clamp meter Shorticus ?. The socket tester is great but very rarely use it but one job would pay for it, you need a meter that needs hrtz on it from memory for measuring fans speeds

I was thinking of buying one for checking pump draw, I had a faulty pump the other day and it's windings resistance readings were inconclusive. Could also be useful for checking things like the NO return from pressure switches etc, would obviously have to have DC ranging for ops like that

 

[gasmarc]

i got one from maplins for a tenner but I have one on my multimeter which I have never used but may do soon lol

 

[shorticus]

you could try a little experiment. A centrifugal pump will happily spin against a closed head however, and this is the interesting bit, the current draw of the pump will drop off exponentially. So with that in mind if one were to test a pump in a heating circuit and the draw was way down on what you expected then it may just assist in determining whether you've got a sludged up or obstructed system...just a thought:yesnod:

 

[gasmarc]

I dont know worth trying i suppose , you can always do an ohms test and there is a formula for testing on each speed or better still use your ear on a screwdriver , or put your hand on it and feel the heat, Viessmann do a key ring pump indicator which can be handy sometimes

 

[shorticus]

I dont know worth trying i suppose , you can always do an ohms test and there is a formula for testing on each speed or better still use your ear on a screwdriver , or put your hand on it and feel the heat, Viessmann do a key ring pump indicator which can be handy sometimes

as I said on the pump I was testing the resistance test weren't as much help as I'd hoped, and yes I did put my hand on it and yes I did get a massive belt up my arm :thumbs_down:

 

[gasmarc]

it you are every in doubt about touching anything that you think might give you an electric shock always use the back of your hand ,It could save your life. Why didnt the fuse blow presuming it was correctly fused

 

[shorticus]

it you are every in doubt about touching anything that you think might give you an electric shock always use the back of your hand ,It could save your life. Why didnt the fuse blow presuming it was correctly fused

the fuse is there to protect the appliance not you that's the earth's job, following the shock I then checked all over it with my multimeter and nothing showed up, not a sausage. As far as I was concerned though the belt was enough reason for replacement well that and some circulation issues

 

[ambrosia]

i found the John Reginald books a little frustrating, he keeps repeating himself, the books could have been condensed down to a quarter of what they are and still have the same content

 

[billybob150811]

even fools like me have a view i,d go for a fluke. clamp meters tempting fate why test current why was the resistance inconclusive what reading did you get did you test for an earth

 

[shorticus]

E to chasis (from known earth) a little under 2 ohms, so a little high but I believe still acceptable unless you can tell me otherwise
E to N on pump = OL
E to L on pump = OL
L to N on pump = 203
Spoke to Vaillant and this particular pump should be 160 although they said that many of their pumps are ok at 200.
Add that to the wallop up my arm and the sluggish system it was definitely due for a new pump.
Fluke is certainly the most respected make within electrical testing spheres but they do come at a premium.
Why do you think knowing a components current draw would be tempting fate?

 

[billybob150811]

sorry about the current thing i avoid amps thats just a personal thing i just woundered if there was an earth if there wasnt it made sense but as there is it kills off my idea and the fluke is just to compensate for my electricial incometence

 

[gasmarc]

well its the ampage that kills you, I would have thought the fuse would have blown ?

 

[woodsy]

I personally have a megger, but have used fluke in the past- both good bits of kit. Again personally, when i'm touching live electrics i'm not putting my life in a £10 multimeter but each to their own.

 

[GQuigley67]

I need to get a new multimeter, mine was a £13 bad girl from B&Q but isn't the best, I need to brush up on my multimeter skills as I am sick of getting shocks when working on boilers its happened more times than I like(mainly from me rushing) or cutting through a live wire and keeking my drawers

as for the fuse protecting you, I was taught to think of it as F Use !!as in (F you's) because it is not there to protect you in anyway just the appliance.

 

[shorticus]

@ billybob, nowt wrong with buying quality tools
@ gasmarc, the only thing that blew were my vocal chords, I sounded like a castrated soprano for a second or so!
@ woodsy, megger = great kit for sure
@ GQuigley, that’s my understanding of fuses too

 

[CES]

Fuse is there for short circuit protection, i.e very little resistance between L & N , low resistance means the current can be massive (OHM's law - google it) this current melts the fuse and breaks the circuit, saving the house from burning down, they don't always blow if something becomes live, that's why we need to make sure there is equipotential bonding present. That's what protects us (apparently).
As far as testers go I have a Fluke RMS multimeter and a Socket & See Loop tester (When I subbed for BG we had to use them all the time) and a Volt stick. Very handy and has cut down my hair raising moments significantly!