Am I being too sensitive?? feeling a bit stressed.

[armyash]

Hi guys, been a while since I had a proper moan but been feeling a bit dejected with work at the moment. Not sure if i'm over reacting or being taken advantage of, possibly a bit of both. I'll be as honest as possible, i'm not writing this post to get sympathy but I'd like some constructive replies, even if you think i'm in the wrong try and have something useful to say if you are going to reply.

I have been working for a local firm for 12 months now, they have a decent contract with a lettings agent so there is always work and it's not particularly important if work is to the highest standard, as i'm sure those of you who do similar work know it's more a case of getting the job done for land lords who don't like to pay a lot of money.

Before I started here I was working for heating install firm in Southampton and living away from home, that was a short term position that I started immediately after I left the army. I learnt a lot there but it was obvious with summer approaching that they didn't have long term plans for me, so I started looking for work back home. (where I am now).

I found this job and started 2 weeks later. I explained what experience I have and they agreed to give me the job. (it's a mix of plumbing and gas work 60/40). I get paid a set wage every week working on a self employed basis, I was told the pay would be reviewed every month. Due to my lack of experience this hasn't really happened as I have been growing in to the role and learning as I go. - fair enough, i was happy to be working back at home, learning the trade and having money coming in. They get someone who is working for fairly low pay but is happy to learn.

Ok I have been there now 12 months and I'm still on the same pay. Don't get me wrong I'm not expecting to be on the same wages as someone who knows the trade inside out and been doing it for 10 years. The thing is there's a few employees there. One guy does the general labouring/dump runs/other jobs like putting fence panels up/ripping bathrooms out etc. He gets paid £10 a week more than me. There's another bloke retired from his normal line of work so doing this to keep him active, he does the painting and decorating (very slowly) - he gets paid £10 a week more than me. Another guy with no qualifications but a bit of jack of all trades gets approx £100-160 a week more than me. He has worked for them for 10 years on and off so has paid his dues and so deserves more pay but that much more? These guys very rarely work past half 4 and if they do they start breaking out in a sweat.

Before anyone thinks I'm being petty or jealous. These guys all seem to work at a leisurely pace the majority of the time while i'm tearing around getting jobs done. On many occasions i'm given my jobs first thing and told to get on with it while the others are putting the kettle on and having a brew.

The work I do is anything from days spent doing land lord certs, boiler installs, general CH repairs, general plumbing repairs leaks, replacing taps. A bit of everything really.

Also every week there are at least 2 nights where I work late to get jobs finished and I know the others have finished for the day. On the days this is down to my lack of experience/speed, that is fine i'm happy to do it. On other days it just seems to be expected of me. Wednesday just gone, I had a big job to do, started it 8.30 finished by 1.30. back to the office get more jobs. 4 more jobs. leave the office 2 stops to pick up parts plus a drive to first job it's 2.30. the jobs were change toilet syphon plus close coupling kit, change diaphragm on boiler in the flat below (so no driving in between). drive across town to change a roca toilet seat, then attend a boiler fault a few miles away at 4pm. (i'm supposed to finish at 4.30) Also got a phone call saying a customer 20 minutes away boiler wasn't working so i need to go and sort that afterwards. So including the driving etc I had 2 hours to do all this if I was finishing on time. Impossible I don't care who you are and that's assuming all jobs are straight forward and fixed with no brain work. Turns out I was home approx 6.30.

Any work I do after half 4 I'm doing for free, I get paid the same whether I finish at half 4 or half 7.

Just also want to say I am happy to do the odd late to help out and catch up on some work but sometimes it feels as though I should be eternally grateful. I never question what I'm asked to do, even if the other guys need a hand on anything they all know I'll be there.

The last plumber they had never worked late, was packing away at 3.30 so by 4.15 all he had out was his tool bag and he was gone at 4.30 on the dot. sometimes home for 4.30. Apparently he would not do anything other than gas/plumbing even to help out and he didn't even like picking up his own materials.

Ok before I get shot down for making it look like it's all works fault and nothing to do with me I'll add this. I'm sure I have made mistakes that have caused extra work, I'm no expert on fault finding on boilers so these jobs take me longer than they should. I have also had a prang in the work van which would cause them hassle. (no expense to them though as I would have to pay any excess).

Am I being over sensitive and should just put up with things or should I say something about i'm not working late anymore or give me a pay rise??

I know there's a lot of guys on here who will say i'm lucky to be working in this current climate and with my level of experience which I agree with to a certain extent but where's the cut off? Like I said i'm not asking to be on big money but I don't feel what i'm getting is fair when i always stay late.

Not expecting everyone to start replying with words of encouragement saying how I should start making demands for this and that but what would be a good next step to sort it out so I'm not stressed out?? I really enjoy the work but I feel like they are getting a lot more out of it than me.

 

[SimonG]

Theres a very fine line between doing a bit extra for yourself and the company and people extracting the urine. I think your employer is taking the pish. But if you are employed on a self employed basis, should you not be on an hourly rate and booking in your actual hours?

 

[Toxic Ted]

You need to start getting your own customer base me old fruit. I worked for an idiot many years ago who treated me much the same and i was on a self employed basis much like yourself, so there are no benefits to working overtime. I copped the hump one day and just told him to stick his job and walked away but doing this puts you in a bit of a situation as i found out. Try to find customers for yourself to do at weekends and evenings and keep your prices keen and provide a good service. If you take your time and leave a good finish for a good price then you will soon start to get a good reputation and referrals will follow. Try to get domestic work away from lettings and landlords as there is no loyalty from them. Once you build relationships with domestic custards they rarely go anywhere else as its all built on trust and knowing you will answer the phone to them on a saturday afternoon when they need you. It sounds like your present employer doesn't appreciate the time you give him so just stay with him till you can afford to move on. Good luck Ash

 

[julesverne]

Ash you need to ask for a wage rise. To give you more baragaing power write everything down just said in bullet points and ask for more money. Dont forget you aint getting holiday or sick pay. If they are not accomodating look for another job.

It could also be if you havent asked then they wont go out of their way to pay you more.

 

[armyash]

Everybody I have spoken to have said they are taking the pish too. The way I look at it though is if I say something they could instantly say if I don't like it find something else. I feel it's a matter of not biting the hand that feeds.

I'm working on a self employed basis but it's really long term so feel like an actual employee, they have said as long as there's work i've got a job. But is that because i appear willing to do what ever is asked for the pay that I get.

If anyone wants to state what they would want to be paid for what i'm doing based on what I have written so far i'd be interested to see what gets said compared to what i'm on.

 

[Millsy 82]

I have worked for quite a few companies in the past (I think I'm on job 13 now in 15 years) What I have found on most of them is that the more you give them the more they will take.

The job I'm at now is a bit of a joke when I first started I was working until 7-8 I always got paid for it but the more I did it the more work they would book in so it would end up me working until every night because the office said oh he will do it. After the summer when I got told off for finishing at 4 a couple of times as I had done all my work and didnt phone the office so they could give me a job in another area I decided that was it (I work on swings and roundabouts If my area is busy I will do it if its quiet i'm going home and not book the hours) It is hard keep telling the office I cant do 8 services and gas safety tests + 3-4 breakdowns a day as they kept arguing about it but I never finish later than 6 now usually no later than 5. Ive had the boss phone me a couple of times asking why I've refused to do some jobs I explain he's not happy but nobody can make you do overtime.

I would explain your happy doing the work but want paying for the extra hours your doing or your not doing the work. They may get a bit funny though but stand your ground.

 

[armyash]

Ash you need to ask for a wage rise. To give you more baragaing power write everything down just said in bullet points and ask for more money. Dont forget you aint getting holiday or sick pay. If they are not accomodating look for another job.

It could also be if you havent asked then they wont go out of their way to pay you more.

That's an excellent point that has been said to me by a few people now so I think that needs to be done.

 

[Scott_D]

How many other guys are working for the company doing plumbing/gas?
Is it the case that you always say yes so the office just phone you every time. Instead of ringing the other guys to share the last minute work they just ring you.

 

[armyash]

You need to start getting your own customer base me old fruit. I worked for an idiot many years ago who treated me much the same and i was on a self employed basis much like yourself, so there are no benefits to working overtime. I copped the hump one day and just told him to stick his job and walked away but doing this puts you in a bit of a situation as i found out. Try to find customers for yourself to do at weekends and evenings and keep your prices keen and provide a good service. If you take your time and leave a good finish for a good price then you will soon start to get a good reputation and referrals will follow. Try to get domestic work away from lettings and landlords as there is no loyalty from them. Once you build relationships with domestic custards they rarely go anywhere else as its all built on trust and knowing you will answer the phone to them on a saturday afternoon when they need you. It sounds like your present employer doesn't appreciate the time you give him so just stay with him till you can afford to move on. Good luck Ash

Thanks Toxic Ted, that sounds like good advice too. I can look to book work in weekends but it's hard to book anything in for the evenings even though I should be able to if I finish at 4.30 but I'm seriously put off trying to get private jobs in the evening in case I have to reschedule and let people down because I am held up doing this job.

But that seems like the best thing to do long term.

 

[armyash]

How many other guys are working for the company doing plumbing/gas?
Is it the case that you always say yes so the office just phone you every time. Instead of ringing the other guys to share the last minute work they just ring you.

It's just me and the boss who do gas but the jack of all trades guy can do a bit of plumbing if required. But yes I get the feeling that I am asked to do stuff because they know i'll do it.

 

[PlumbersMate]

Just don't go in guns blazing, ask them if they think you're worth more. Ask to agree as a minimum any late works is extra money for you

 

[PlumbersMate]

Thanks Toxic Ted, that sounds like good advice too. I can look to book work in weekends but it's hard to book anything in for the evenings even though I should be able to if I finish at 4.30 but I'm seriously put off trying to get private jobs in the evening in case I have to reschedule and let people down because I am held up doing this job.

But that seems like the best thing to do long term.

just offer the customer. Say to them I can book you in for Saturday or if you need me sooner I can come one evening in the week but I could be held up or late as I am very busy right now

 

[Millsy 82]

Thanks Toxic Ted, that sounds like good advice too. I can look to book work in weekends but it's hard to book anything in for the evenings even though I should be able to if I finish at 4.30 but I'm seriously put off trying to get private jobs in the evening in case I have to reschedule and let people down because I am held up doing this job.

But that seems like the best thing to do long term.

Tell them you cant work past 4.30. make up something like the missus is getting fed up of you working late so I cant do it anymore. I do alot of private work after work and if I do I dont work late.

 

[armyash]

Just don't go in guns blazing, ask them if they think you're worth more. Ask to agree as a minimum any late works is extra money for you

I would be reasonable with anything I asked for and I'd be respectful about it too. If I was getting paid for extra hours I'd work until 10pm every night. It's a lot more tiring working past half 4 when I know i'm not being paid.

 

[armyash]

Tell them you cant work past 4.30. make up something like the missus is getting fed up of you working late so I cant do it anymore. I do alot of private work after work and if I do I dont work late.

I have considered that, if I don't get a pay rise that will be what i'll be doing.

 

[gavinwilson]

your gas safe and someone who rips fences down is on more money than you ? they`re taking the mick,but as you said your inexperienced so they`re going to take advantage of that. you need something to bargain with.

 

[MOSSEP]

It would help to know how much you get paid, and if you have asked for a pay rise since you have been there. For all we know you could be bringing in £200 a day.

 

[armyash]

It would help to know how much you get paid, and if you have asked for a pay rise since you have been there. For all we know you could be bringing in £200 a day.

I have not asked for a pay rise since i have been there, i wanted to get the first year out of the way so they can see I have proven myself to be a hard worker and there for the long term - which I have more than done.

I don't know how much I bring in for them some days a fair bit and some days not so much all depends on the jobs they book in for me but if I do 6-8 land lord certs in a day it's fair to say that's a decent amount to bring in. Not entirely sure what they charge for them but I think it's approx £90 a go.

I'm on 340 a week.

 

[Ch4 plumbing]

I have not asked for a pay rise since i have been there, i wanted to get the first year out of the way so they can see I have proven myself to be a hard worker and there for the long term - which I have more than done.

I don't know how much I bring in for them some days a fair bit and some days not so much all depends on the jobs they book in for me but if I do 6-8 land lord certs in a day it's fair to say that's a decent amount to bring in. Not entirely sure what they charge for them but I think it's approx £90 a go.

I'm on 340 a week.

i take it that's before tax? That still seems very little at £68 a day!

 

[Chris F]

They are having a laugh mate, I personally think you are holding the best hand, if you told them to stick it they won't find many engineers willing to do it for that money, ask them for a rise and tell them that any work after 4.30 will be chargeable.

 

[armyash]

340 a week is what i take home, so yes £68.00 a day. 8.50 an hour i think. and this hourly rate drops as soon as im working past half 4. Wednesday i worked it to 6.80 an hour and there's been other days where it's worked out less than minimum wage.

 

[AWheating]

tell them you can no longer work over due to your going to be getting a second job stacking shelves to cover your bills.

it will tell them that you are not happy to work the extra hours for free and you need more money and are looking for work else where.

either that or ask to leave an hour early one day and tell the other workers that seem close to your gaffa you have a job interview for a better paying job.

most gaffas wont give you better money unless they believe they will have to.

 

[mountainman]

£340 a week is far too little for your talents.
:O

 

[armyash]

I am prepared to work for a reasonable wage considering my experience but this lack of experience is made up by my extra hours and willingness to do anything so I think i deserve more.

 

[MOSSEP]

£340 take home works out to about £81 a day, or £10.20 per hour for a take home pay. I think that it pretty low. Do they provide transport, fuel etc....

First see what other firms offer in your area, PAYE rates and sub contractor rates, that will give you some figures for your next move which it to ask for a pay rise - if you don't ask you wont get!

Good luck, I can't tell what your work is like without seeing it, but if you deserve it and you earn enough for your boss you should get it.

 

[northcarr]

I Think they are seriously underpaying you ash, I have worked for peanuts in the past. You need to relies just what you're worth it's easy to underestimate yourself at the end of the day you are gsr all the cost ,time and stress you need recompense. If plumbers/gas engineers are getting paid badly which seam's to be talked a lot about on the forum then change jobs, it appears companies want to pay trades all the same rate which to me is unfair a painter does not have to retrain every 5yrs (no disrespect to painters).

 

[armyash]

£340 take home works out to about £81 a day, or £10.20 per hour for a take home pay. I think that it pretty low. Do they provide transport, fuel etc....

First see what other firms offer in your area, PAYE rates and sub contractor rates, that will give you some figures for your next move which it to ask for a pay rise - if you don't ask you wont get!

Good luck, I can't tell what your work is like without seeing it, but if you deserve it and you earn enough for your boss you should get it.

Ok thanks for clearing that up regarding pay as i said i'd be honest about things so will say what i know.

Still doesn't change the fact that the other guys do a lot less but get paid more and don't do the extra hours i do.

First thing I will do is ask for a pay rise this week and see what they say, as already said i enjoy the work but I want what i feel is fair.

 

[northstar]

Ash I would ask for a pay rise, I would still make my own customer base in case it goes pear shaped at your work place

 

[armyash]

Thanks for all the replies. I feel more confident now to go in and have a word and ask for a pay rise. I have no problem working for them, I'm sure there have been times when they have wondered why they gave me the job but those days are past.

I'll see what gets said, if they say no to a pay rise then I'll be making it clear that come 4.30 I'll be finishing for the day like the others. It works both ways.

I can live on my current pay for now providing I am finishing on time.

 

[turnpin]

Hi ash Not knowing your status i.e wife kids mortgage etc etc I think you need to find another job I myself left without another job to go to over the guy cutting my money by 35 quid a week but like you I had the ethic to go to work as you have there is always agency work to fall back on even temporary basis Approach them about the things you have highlighted and its time to believe in yourself best of luck mate and keep us informed...regards Turnpin

 

[IDCHAPPY]

Guy sounds like he's taking the Mick in my opinion

 

[stevetheplumber]

they are taking the pee ash youll get better money than that anywhere a minimum of 13 per hour on cards with a van fuel card and phone included

 

[Killy Bing]

The pay for the situation a year ago was perfect

now personally think it's become a one way street and certainly not yours.

 

[PlumbersMate]

That's a fair rate for say first 6 months but you can earn more as a labourer. Would be a fair rate if you was working with another fitter and him showing you everything but not to be going out on your own

 

[stratplus]

Anyone know of any agencies for plumbers? Know loads for commercial catering but not plumbing.

 

[iain85]

Where in Kent are you Ash? I think that you should really consider starting to look for another job. Those rates for self employed are horrible. Sounds to me like your employer is a chancer and at the very minimum should be paying you for your overtime.
Like it's already been mentioned there is no way a fencer should out earn a gas engineer, newly qualified or not. The risk we take has to have a significant monetary value attached to it or it's just not worth doing.

You could sub to BG on servicing work ( boring to be fair) for 22 quid an appliance. When I last subbed to them during the induction I met a father and son firm where the son had literally just qualified and he was out subbing on his own.

Good luck what ever you decide. I suppose you could start by requesting minimum a pay rise to achieve parity with your other colleagues and then time and a half after 4.30pm. This should buy you time to find other employment and not fell like your being mugged off.

 

[julesverne]

Ash you need a raise. I pay my trainee 250 a week + overtime and dinners if I forget to make sarnies

 

[armyash]

That's a fair rate for say first 6 months but you can earn more as a labourer. Would be a fair rate if you was working with another fitter and him showing you everything but not to be going out on your own

PlumbersMate thanks for that, I have been down on myself thinking the boss is in the right because of my experience but like you said I don't have anyone going out with me, sure there's still plenty to learn but i'm doing the same work all by myself that if i left he would have to pay another engineer more to do the same work.

If he is happy for me to go out and work on my own then I think it's time he paid me the going rate.

 

[Killy Bing]

Ash would be a credit to any company he works for.

if i had the work workload id be asking him to work with me because frankly i wouldn't have to worry about the job one bit.

if anyone in kent needed a hand on a weekend then ash would be my suggestion.

 

[Destroyer2813]

You said that they would review your money based on a month by month basis this hasent happened so i would start the conversation of with ive been here a year now and havent had the pay review we talked about on my appointment can we organize a meeting to discuss this. Then gives you a chance to make notes of all the points you"ve mentioned to us

 

[armyash]

Ash would be a credit to any company he works for.

if i had the work workload id be asking him to work with me because frankly i wouldn't have to worry about the job one bit.

if anyone in kent needed a hand on a weekend then ash would be my suggestion.

Thanks Killy!

As you know I lack a bit of confidence at times but the willingness is there and nothing is too much.

 

[villa_tom]

Do you pay all your own fuel and van etc etc Ash?

if you do then they are taking the **** to be honest, a year down the line you should be taking home a lot more than that.

As as a self employed engineer, you need to be taking home more than direct labour engineers due to the cost involved and the risk you may not have a job tomorrow.

I had my hours cut at BG and only work 3 days a week now, and I earn just under £700 a week for three days.

I work monday to wednesday and on Thursday and Friday I go out with one of their direct labour engineers and learn more about the repair side of the job.

I dont get paid for this, but as I don't do any private work, I'd only be say at home doing nothing if I wasn't out learning, and you can't really put a price on what I've learnt in the last few weeks. I'm using what I've learnt already and have earned more on the days I'd do work, so it's working out well for me.

BG are not everyone's cup of tea, but it may be worth you having a look at what they could offer you if they take on more contractors in the future.

 

[PlumbersMate]

How comes they've cut you Tom? Surely they ain't quiet?

 

[armyash]

Do you pay all your own fuel and van etc etc Ash?

if you do then they are taking the **** to be honest, a year down the line you should be taking home a lot more than that.

As as a self employed engineer, you need to be taking home more than direct labour engineers due to the cost involved and the risk you may not have a job tomorrow.

I had my hours cut at BG and only work 3 days a week now, and I earn just under £700 a week for three days.

I work monday to wednesday and on Thursday and Friday I go out with one of their direct labour engineers and learn more about the repair side of the job.

I dont get paid for this, but as I don't do any private work, I'd only be say at home doing nothing if I wasn't out learning, and you can't really put a price on what I've learnt in the last few weeks. I'm using what I've learnt already and have earned more on the days I'd do work, so it's working out well for me.

BG are not everyone's cup of tea, but it may be worth you having a look at what they could offer you if they take on more contractors in the future.

Sounds like a good set up you have there. Earning good money on the days you work and learning on the days you dont get paid. What work are you doing when they are paying you?

They do provide van and pay fuel etc but thats the same for the other guys too - painter, labourer etc. If i was paying all that myself i'd have left long after 3 months.

 

[villa_tom]

Sounds like a good set up you have there. Earning good money on the days you work and learning on the days you dont get paid. What work are you doing when they are paying you?

They do provide van and pay fuel etc but thats the same for the other guys too - painter, labourer etc. If i was paying all that myself i'd have left long after 3 months.

I used to do serving five days a week.

Now i do a mixture of servicing and repairs and some upgrade work now, I much prefer the variety now

 

[villa_tom]

How comes they've cut you Tom? Surely they ain't quiet?

They're not quiet, they're just not a busy as they thought it would be, mainly because we didn't have a cold winter really.

Most of the cuts are down to the fact that their direct labour engineers only work 3 days a week in the summer and they legally, because of the union, have to offer them the chance to work their days off in the summer. If they kept all the contractors doing their service programme then they wouldn't be able to offer the legal overtime.

It suits me at the minute, ive worked like a dog the past 18 months getting my house deposit together and working 3 days a week is like a mini rest for me

i have it on good authority that I'll be back on 5 days in September. Otherwise I'd have left when the cuts happened

 

[Nostrum]

It sounds like you suffer from nice guy syndrome. Willing, understanding and not a money grabber, that's perfect for an employer who won't offer you more money when he thinks you won't bring it up either and cost himself more.

I've been there myself and judging by your previous posts you suffer a little from low self confidence in some areas of the job. (No offence)

You need to value yourself so that you can sell that value to your employer. Once you've realised you are good at what you do ( and I would say you sound like you are from the posts and very interested in doing it right) you'll have the confidence to open up the conversation.

I think the wage was fair but the hours aren't, so suggest invoice him for your extra hours, or agree a higher basic. Nothing to stop you looking for other work in the mean time.

good luck with it, sounds like your worth employing so if he's sensible he will be wiling to negotiate, if he's looking at the short term pound signs he won't budge on your wage and you'll know its time to move on.

 

[stratplus]

I used to do serving five days a week.

Now i do a mixture of servicing and repairs and some upgrade work now, I much prefer the variety now

Sounds ace to me tom

 

[armyash]

It sounds like you suffer from nice guy syndrome. Willing, understanding and not a money grabber, that's perfect for an employer who won't offer you more money when he thinks you won't bring it up either and cost himself more.

I've been there myself and judging by your previous posts you suffer a little from low self confidence in some areas of the job. (No offence)

You need to value yourself so that you can sell that value to your employer. Once you've realised you are good at what you do ( and I would say you sound like you are from the posts and very interested in doing it right) you'll have the confidence to open up the conversation.

I think the wage was fair but the hours aren't, so suggest invoice him for your extra hours, or agree a higher basic. Nothing to stop you looking for other work in the mean time.

good luck with it, sounds like your worth employing so if he's sensible he will be wiling to negotiate, if he's looking at the short term pound signs he won't budge on your wage and you'll know its time to move on.

Spot on really. I'm fairly new to this type of work and it's the first time I have worked on a self employed basis so I kind of feel like I have let them dictate terms to me without questioning anything and have accepted it all.

I agree the wage is not totally unfair IF i'm working to my set hours and like you say i'm not a money grabber but now I know everybody is earning more for doing less it's got to the point where something needs to be said.

If they are not prepared to budge it will definitely be time to move on.

Thanks for your response.

 

[villa_tom]

Sounds ace to me tom

I love it mate.

I still reckon 60/70% of my work is servicing! which I don't mind as I find it quite relaxing.

The other 30/40% will be anything from breakdowns, which I'm slowly getting the hang of and some pipework jobs and rad installs, which is what I did most of my apprenticeship in so I'm pretty good on that already.

I can't complain really