Am I being too sensitive?? feeling a bit stressed.

[armyash]

Hi guys, been a while since I had a proper moan but been feeling a bit dejected with work at the moment. Not sure if i'm over reacting or being taken advantage of, possibly a bit of both. I'll be as honest as possible, i'm not writing this post to get sympathy but I'd like some constructive replies, even if you think i'm in the wrong try and have something useful to say if you are going to reply.

I have been working for a local firm for 12 months now, they have a decent contract with a lettings agent so there is always work and it's not particularly important if work is to the highest standard, as i'm sure those of you who do similar work know it's more a case of getting the job done for land lords who don't like to pay a lot of money.

Before I started here I was working for heating install firm in Southampton and living away from home, that was a short term position that I started immediately after I left the army. I learnt a lot there but it was obvious with summer approaching that they didn't have long term plans for me, so I started looking for work back home. (where I am now).

I found this job and started 2 weeks later. I explained what experience I have and they agreed to give me the job. (it's a mix of plumbing and gas work 60/40). I get paid a set wage every week working on a self employed basis, I was told the pay would be reviewed every month. Due to my lack of experience this hasn't really happened as I have been growing in to the role and learning as I go. - fair enough, i was happy to be working back at home, learning the trade and having money coming in. They get someone who is working for fairly low pay but is happy to learn.

Ok I have been there now 12 months and I'm still on the same pay. Don't get me wrong I'm not expecting to be on the same wages as someone who knows the trade inside out and been doing it for 10 years. The thing is there's a few employees there. One guy does the general labouring/dump runs/other jobs like putting fence panels up/ripping bathrooms out etc. He gets paid £10 a week more than me. There's another bloke retired from his normal line of work so doing this to keep him active, he does the painting and decorating (very slowly) - he gets paid £10 a week more than me. Another guy with no qualifications but a bit of jack of all trades gets approx £100-160 a week more than me. He has worked for them for 10 years on and off so has paid his dues and so deserves more pay but that much more? These guys very rarely work past half 4 and if they do they start breaking out in a sweat.

Before anyone thinks I'm being petty or jealous. These guys all seem to work at a leisurely pace the majority of the time while i'm tearing around getting jobs done. On many occasions i'm given my jobs first thing and told to get on with it while the others are putting the kettle on and having a brew.

The work I do is anything from days spent doing land lord certs, boiler installs, general CH repairs, general plumbing repairs leaks, replacing taps. A bit of everything really.

Also every week there are at least 2 nights where I work late to get jobs finished and I know the others have finished for the day. On the days this is down to my lack of experience/speed, that is fine i'm happy to do it. On other days it just seems to be expected of me. Wednesday just gone, I had a big job to do, started it 8.30 finished by 1.30. back to the office get more jobs. 4 more jobs. leave the office 2 stops to pick up parts plus a drive to first job it's 2.30. the jobs were change toilet syphon plus close coupling kit, change diaphragm on boiler in the flat below (so no driving in between). drive across town to change a roca toilet seat, then attend a boiler fault a few miles away at 4pm. (i'm supposed to finish at 4.30) Also got a phone call saying a customer 20 minutes away boiler wasn't working so i need to go and sort that afterwards. So including the driving etc I had 2 hours to do all this if I was finishing on time. Impossible I don't care who you are and that's assuming all jobs are straight forward and fixed with no brain work. Turns out I was home approx 6.30.

Any work I do after half 4 I'm doing for free, I get paid the same whether I finish at half 4 or half 7.

Just also want to say I am happy to do the odd late to help out and catch up on some work but sometimes it feels as though I should be eternally grateful. I never question what I'm asked to do, even if the other guys need a hand on anything they all know I'll be there.

The last plumber they had never worked late, was packing away at 3.30 so by 4.15 all he had out was his tool bag and he was gone at 4.30 on the dot. sometimes home for 4.30. Apparently he would not do anything other than gas/plumbing even to help out and he didn't even like picking up his own materials.

Ok before I get shot down for making it look like it's all works fault and nothing to do with me I'll add this. I'm sure I have made mistakes that have caused extra work, I'm no expert on fault finding on boilers so these jobs take me longer than they should. I have also had a prang in the work van which would cause them hassle. (no expense to them though as I would have to pay any excess).

Am I being over sensitive and should just put up with things or should I say something about i'm not working late anymore or give me a pay rise??

I know there's a lot of guys on here who will say i'm lucky to be working in this current climate and with my level of experience which I agree with to a certain extent but where's the cut off? Like I said i'm not asking to be on big money but I don't feel what i'm getting is fair when i always stay late.

Not expecting everyone to start replying with words of encouragement saying how I should start making demands for this and that but what would be a good next step to sort it out so I'm not stressed out?? I really enjoy the work but I feel like they are getting a lot more out of it than me.

 

[IDCHAPPY]

Guy sounds like he's taking the Mick in my opinion

 

[stevetheplumber]

they are taking the pee ash youll get better money than that anywhere a minimum of 13 per hour on cards with a van fuel card and phone included

 

[Killy Bing]

The pay for the situation a year ago was perfect

now personally think it's become a one way street and certainly not yours.

 

[PlumbersMate]

That's a fair rate for say first 6 months but you can earn more as a labourer. Would be a fair rate if you was working with another fitter and him showing you everything but not to be going out on your own

 

[stratplus]

Anyone know of any agencies for plumbers? Know loads for commercial catering but not plumbing.

 

[iain85]

Where in Kent are you Ash? I think that you should really consider starting to look for another job. Those rates for self employed are horrible. Sounds to me like your employer is a chancer and at the very minimum should be paying you for your overtime.
Like it's already been mentioned there is no way a fencer should out earn a gas engineer, newly qualified or not. The risk we take has to have a significant monetary value attached to it or it's just not worth doing.

You could sub to BG on servicing work ( boring to be fair) for 22 quid an appliance. When I last subbed to them during the induction I met a father and son firm where the son had literally just qualified and he was out subbing on his own.

Good luck what ever you decide. I suppose you could start by requesting minimum a pay rise to achieve parity with your other colleagues and then time and a half after 4.30pm. This should buy you time to find other employment and not fell like your being mugged off.

 

[julesverne]

Ash you need a raise. I pay my trainee 250 a week + overtime and dinners if I forget to make sarnies

 

[armyash]

That's a fair rate for say first 6 months but you can earn more as a labourer. Would be a fair rate if you was working with another fitter and him showing you everything but not to be going out on your own

PlumbersMate thanks for that, I have been down on myself thinking the boss is in the right because of my experience but like you said I don't have anyone going out with me, sure there's still plenty to learn but i'm doing the same work all by myself that if i left he would have to pay another engineer more to do the same work.

If he is happy for me to go out and work on my own then I think it's time he paid me the going rate.

 

[Killy Bing]

Ash would be a credit to any company he works for.

if i had the work workload id be asking him to work with me because frankly i wouldn't have to worry about the job one bit.

if anyone in kent needed a hand on a weekend then ash would be my suggestion.

 

[Destroyer2813]

You said that they would review your money based on a month by month basis this hasent happened so i would start the conversation of with ive been here a year now and havent had the pay review we talked about on my appointment can we organize a meeting to discuss this. Then gives you a chance to make notes of all the points you"ve mentioned to us

 

[armyash]

Ash would be a credit to any company he works for.

if i had the work workload id be asking him to work with me because frankly i wouldn't have to worry about the job one bit.

if anyone in kent needed a hand on a weekend then ash would be my suggestion.

Thanks Killy!

As you know I lack a bit of confidence at times but the willingness is there and nothing is too much.

 

[villa_tom]

Do you pay all your own fuel and van etc etc Ash?

if you do then they are taking the **** to be honest, a year down the line you should be taking home a lot more than that.

As as a self employed engineer, you need to be taking home more than direct labour engineers due to the cost involved and the risk you may not have a job tomorrow.

I had my hours cut at BG and only work 3 days a week now, and I earn just under £700 a week for three days.

I work monday to wednesday and on Thursday and Friday I go out with one of their direct labour engineers and learn more about the repair side of the job.

I dont get paid for this, but as I don't do any private work, I'd only be say at home doing nothing if I wasn't out learning, and you can't really put a price on what I've learnt in the last few weeks. I'm using what I've learnt already and have earned more on the days I'd do work, so it's working out well for me.

BG are not everyone's cup of tea, but it may be worth you having a look at what they could offer you if they take on more contractors in the future.

 

[PlumbersMate]

How comes they've cut you Tom? Surely they ain't quiet?

 

[armyash]

Do you pay all your own fuel and van etc etc Ash?

if you do then they are taking the **** to be honest, a year down the line you should be taking home a lot more than that.

As as a self employed engineer, you need to be taking home more than direct labour engineers due to the cost involved and the risk you may not have a job tomorrow.

I had my hours cut at BG and only work 3 days a week now, and I earn just under £700 a week for three days.

I work monday to wednesday and on Thursday and Friday I go out with one of their direct labour engineers and learn more about the repair side of the job.

I dont get paid for this, but as I don't do any private work, I'd only be say at home doing nothing if I wasn't out learning, and you can't really put a price on what I've learnt in the last few weeks. I'm using what I've learnt already and have earned more on the days I'd do work, so it's working out well for me.

BG are not everyone's cup of tea, but it may be worth you having a look at what they could offer you if they take on more contractors in the future.

Sounds like a good set up you have there. Earning good money on the days you work and learning on the days you dont get paid. What work are you doing when they are paying you?

They do provide van and pay fuel etc but thats the same for the other guys too - painter, labourer etc. If i was paying all that myself i'd have left long after 3 months.

 

[villa_tom]

Sounds like a good set up you have there. Earning good money on the days you work and learning on the days you dont get paid. What work are you doing when they are paying you?

They do provide van and pay fuel etc but thats the same for the other guys too - painter, labourer etc. If i was paying all that myself i'd have left long after 3 months.

I used to do serving five days a week.

Now i do a mixture of servicing and repairs and some upgrade work now, I much prefer the variety now

 

[villa_tom]

How comes they've cut you Tom? Surely they ain't quiet?

They're not quiet, they're just not a busy as they thought it would be, mainly because we didn't have a cold winter really.

Most of the cuts are down to the fact that their direct labour engineers only work 3 days a week in the summer and they legally, because of the union, have to offer them the chance to work their days off in the summer. If they kept all the contractors doing their service programme then they wouldn't be able to offer the legal overtime.

It suits me at the minute, ive worked like a dog the past 18 months getting my house deposit together and working 3 days a week is like a mini rest for me

i have it on good authority that I'll be back on 5 days in September. Otherwise I'd have left when the cuts happened

 

[Nostrum]

It sounds like you suffer from nice guy syndrome. Willing, understanding and not a money grabber, that's perfect for an employer who won't offer you more money when he thinks you won't bring it up either and cost himself more.

I've been there myself and judging by your previous posts you suffer a little from low self confidence in some areas of the job. (No offence)

You need to value yourself so that you can sell that value to your employer. Once you've realised you are good at what you do ( and I would say you sound like you are from the posts and very interested in doing it right) you'll have the confidence to open up the conversation.

I think the wage was fair but the hours aren't, so suggest invoice him for your extra hours, or agree a higher basic. Nothing to stop you looking for other work in the mean time.

good luck with it, sounds like your worth employing so if he's sensible he will be wiling to negotiate, if he's looking at the short term pound signs he won't budge on your wage and you'll know its time to move on.

 

[stratplus]

I used to do serving five days a week.

Now i do a mixture of servicing and repairs and some upgrade work now, I much prefer the variety now

Sounds ace to me tom

 

[armyash]

It sounds like you suffer from nice guy syndrome. Willing, understanding and not a money grabber, that's perfect for an employer who won't offer you more money when he thinks you won't bring it up either and cost himself more.

I've been there myself and judging by your previous posts you suffer a little from low self confidence in some areas of the job. (No offence)

You need to value yourself so that you can sell that value to your employer. Once you've realised you are good at what you do ( and I would say you sound like you are from the posts and very interested in doing it right) you'll have the confidence to open up the conversation.

I think the wage was fair but the hours aren't, so suggest invoice him for your extra hours, or agree a higher basic. Nothing to stop you looking for other work in the mean time.

good luck with it, sounds like your worth employing so if he's sensible he will be wiling to negotiate, if he's looking at the short term pound signs he won't budge on your wage and you'll know its time to move on.

Spot on really. I'm fairly new to this type of work and it's the first time I have worked on a self employed basis so I kind of feel like I have let them dictate terms to me without questioning anything and have accepted it all.

I agree the wage is not totally unfair IF i'm working to my set hours and like you say i'm not a money grabber but now I know everybody is earning more for doing less it's got to the point where something needs to be said.

If they are not prepared to budge it will definitely be time to move on.

Thanks for your response.

 

[villa_tom]

Sounds ace to me tom

I love it mate.

I still reckon 60/70% of my work is servicing! which I don't mind as I find it quite relaxing.

The other 30/40% will be anything from breakdowns, which I'm slowly getting the hang of and some pipework jobs and rad installs, which is what I did most of my apprenticeship in so I'm pretty good on that already.

I can't complain really

 

[stratplus]

I love it mate.

I still reckon 60/70% of my work is servicing! which I don't mind as I find it quite relaxing.

The other 30/40% will be anything from breakdowns, which I'm slowly getting the hang of and some pipework jobs and rad installs, which is what I did most of my apprenticeship in so I'm pretty good on that already.

I can't complain really

Did you do much servicing before bg? Did you ever work for chn??

 

[villa_tom]

It sounds like you suffer from nice guy syndrome. Willing, understanding and not a money grabber, that's perfect for an employer who won't offer you more money when he thinks you won't bring it up either and cost himself more.

I've been there myself and judging by your previous posts you suffer a little from low self confidence in some areas of the job. (No offence)

You need to value yourself so that you can sell that value to your employer. Once you've realised you are good at what you do ( and I would say you sound like you are from the posts and very interested in doing it right) you'll have the confidence to open up the conversation.

I think the wage was fair but the hours aren't, so suggest invoice him for your extra hours, or agree a higher basic. Nothing to stop you looking for other work in the mean time.

good luck with it, sounds like your worth employing so if he's sensible he will be wiling to negotiate, if he's looking at the short term pound signs he won't budge on your wage and you'll know its time to move on.

Nice guy syndrome

sounds like what I used to have, when I first started out I used to say yes to any extra job or awkward job, mainly because I was young and too scared to say no.

It was only when I called the office one day and was taking to the chap on the phone, when overheard another girl in the office say "don't give that job to Colin, he will only moan, give it tom, he takes anything"

i got got off the phone and completed my next job and sent the next job back, as that would have taken me into overtime, which I never wanted anyway

from then on, I never took any **** off anyone and if anyone questioned anything, I would just let my safety record and my completed work quality do the taking

 

[Nostrum]

Spot on really. I'm fairly new to this type of work and it's the first time I have worked on a self employed basis so I kind of feel like I have let them dictate terms to me without questioning anything and have accepted it all.

I agree the wage is not totally unfair IF i'm working to my set hours and like you say i'm not a money grabber but now I know everybody is earning more for doing less it's got to the point where something needs to be said.

If they are not prepared to budge it will definitely be time to move on.

Thanks for your response.

I've known some pretty crap engineers get decent well paid jobs and wing it because they talk the talk, and the flip side is being good but not having confidence in yourself which immediately de-values yourself. The ideal combination is somewhere in between I guess??!

 

[villa_tom]

Did you do much servicing before bg? Did you ever work for chn??

I did three years on installs, then fell out a loft and battered my shoulder (it's ok now) and as I couldn't lift properly I went into serving and repairs. I did that for about a year then was made redundant.

After that I went to BG as a contractor and have been there nearly 4 years

i never worked for CHN mate, I don't know who they are

 

[hammers4spanner]

You can always do what I have done in the past beat your boss up with a telephone !

 

[Ermintrude]

Our new lads Are on that. They get everything provided . £10 per hour after first year which is 500 a week with a Saturday morning.

 

[armyash]

Our new lads Are on that. They get everything provided . £10 per hour after first year which is 500 a week with a Saturday morning.

Which is perfectly acceptable and I hope that it hasn't come across that i'm turning my nose up at the 340 a week that i get, it's doing how much i do while the others do less work but earn more that i have the biggest problem with along with the extra hours.

 

[helpsy]

Anyone know of any agencies for plumbers? Know loads for commercial catering but not plumbing.

Sub contract
Able Group
01702 429600
I've done alright out of them.
You'll need your certificates.
public liability of £5M

 

[stratplus]

I did three years on installs, then fell out a loft and battered my shoulder (it's ok now) and as I couldn't lift properly I went into serving and repairs. I did that for about a year then was made redundant.

After that I went to BG as a contractor and have been there nearly 4 years

i never worked for CHN mate, I don't know who they are

They were a Dudley based company. So how many services do bg give you a day?

 

[Ray Stafford]

Hi Ash

A couple of suggestions if I may?

Firstly, ask your boss for an appointment to discuss it. Explain that you know how busy he is, but that you would value 30 minutes of undisturbed time to discuss this important matter.

Secondly, completely forget what other people earn. This is all about you and the value that you bring to the firm.

Speaking as an employer, the moment any employee starts to talk to me about what their colleagues earn, I turn off completely. The prime reason is that I can't discuss it - what another employee earns is confidential to him/her, and I can't say things like "yep - you're right, it was a mistake to give Joe that payrise last year, because he really doesn't deserve it." When employees discuss pay they often don't differentiate between before/after tax, the effect of Working family tax credits, overtime and all sorts of other things so their beliefs are often wrong. But I can't break confidenitiality to put that error straight. I have employees that I think are over paid. We all make wrong judgements sometimes, and when an employer does that, since it is almost impossible to cut someones pay, the result is an overpaid employee. Assuming that they aren't terrible (just over paid) often the best solution is just to let inflation eat away at it over a few years.

Over paying an employee is an expensive mistake. But overpaying an entire workforce in order to maintain what people think are "correct" differentials in comparison to that overpaid employee is the road to bankrupcy.

In my experience, employees get very uptight if they think that something is "unfair". But I run a business to be profitable, not to conform to a third party's idea of what "fair".

Just my 2 pennoth.