Is my charge reasonable?

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Discuss Is my charge reasonable? in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

Harvest Fields said:
You cannot work on any gas appliance unless you are gas safe registered. This is and always has been the case. (Since we have had a regulating body)
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But ShaunCorbs said
"He won’t gas safe can only come in when someone charges for gas work and there not reg
If they do it for free gas safe don’t care"

I don't understand, please explain.
 
fixitflav said:
So presumably you can work on on your own boiler (as long as you don't pay yourself :confused:) and that's OK? We're often told otherwise on this and other forums.
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Anybody whom carries out work to a gas appliance needs to be experienced and trained.
If it is for gain then they must be GSR, however if a numpty plays with their own device then they immediately invalidate their home insurance and leave themselves open to criminal proceedings by others. If you all want when my barrister wakes up I will find out from her how long the tariff for this offence might be
Rob Foster ...aka centralheatking
 
Rob Foster said:
Anybody whom carries out work to a gas appliance needs to be experienced and trained.
If it is for gain then they must be GSR, however if a numpty plays with their own device then they immediately invalidate their home insurance and leave themselves open to criminal proceedings by others. If you all want when my barrister wakes up I will find out from her how long the tariff for this offence might be
Rob Foster ...aka centralheatking
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I hope she charges you by the hour.
 
Rob Foster said:
if a numpty plays with their own device then they immediately invalidate their home insurance and leave themselves open to criminal proceedings by others
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If I play with my device and don't cause any damage to others, what are the legal procedings going to be for, and who will be pressing for them?
 
1998 Gas Regulations cover most of the above. The largest fine a quick trawl uncovered was £1.2m plus sundry other fines and costs. 18 months in clink seems to be average incarceration. Plus the danger diy gas work puts the home owners family in. Its not just gas bangs but flue gas. solid fuel carries other dangers.
Rob Foster aka centralheatking
 
Murdoch said:
Why would a non GSR person work on a boiler?

Anyone with even half a brain knows that they are blxxdy dangerous ... and can explode
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Because every year I have to straighten the fixing lugs on the decorative casing on the boiler at my mother's house after some numpty who happens to be a RGI bends them by removing the casing in a ham-fisted manner (next year I will supervise).

Because I had three RGIs look at my own boiler unable to work out why it was overheating 'perhaps it's supposed to do that'. Then I discovered the flow and return had been reversed.

Because I've watched (yet another) RGI work on my boiler, fit the functional casing and then wonder why the boiler wouldn't fire, then he realised he'd left one corner hanging off and had missed the fixing hook entirely. Lucky the boiler has pressure sensors able to recognise that the casing has been put on by an idiot. (The manufacturer's instructions say to check the condition of the seal and to check the casing has been fitted correctly. Ha ha.)

The one that said a heating system was full of air and it turned out he hadn't checked the ballcock on an open-vented system.

The one who serviced a boiler he had originally fitted for a customer of mine and then ignored her all weekend when she told him, in the middle of winter, that her heating wasn't working. He was eager enough to come and look when she sent a text saying 'don't worry - I'll call Baxi out'. Customer is in her 60s and has emphysema, but by then I was on my way (it was his shoddy wiring).

This, sadly, is the level of competence I find in local gas installers. People ask me for recommendations and I'm currently unable to give any. You can understand why I would feel safer in my own house if I had worked on my own boiler than allowed an unknown person with a Gas Safe card to work on it for me. So, yes, it would be interesting to see what the law says.
 
Harvest Fields said:
We are not all like that mate and people still shouldn’t mess with gas unless trained.
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I know we aren't all like that, but you can well understand why the industry has such an awful reputation. I note that my thread in the Gas Installer required forum has received zero interest, so I can only assume all the good ones did the sensible thing and ran as far from Colchester as they could.

One guy I used to use and who had seemed quite good got struck off the register. I did know another guy who also seemed quite good, not that I actually met him myself (though he was at least reassuringly expensive), but he did make me wait a month for a repeat annual boiler service before finally telling me he simply wouldn't have the time (as he no longer does domestic).

Another guy I've heard of installed a boiler but hadn't had it it setting mode when he set it up, so it wasn't correctly commissioned. Luckily the manufacturer sorted this out and commented 'it happens often'.

So, just personally, I've been through 5 gas installers and found, perhaps, only one good one. Let's hope I'm just unlucky because, so far, 80% of the local ones are not very good. If I based solely on my own experience, I'd have to draw the conclusion that whatever training people do for their membership of Corgi and now Gas Safe does not give (or is not enough to give) a competent person.

You will well understand that, in my own home, with my relatively simple Potterton Profile, I would be more inclined to trust myself than a random technician/installer from the Yellow Pages when it came to the fan, pressure sensors (they only register a pressure or lack of: no proportionality involved), theromocouples, thermostats, solonoids, and the pcb, though I wouldn't be happy setting up a gas valve.

Quite honestly, I do know someone I would trust with it, but he hasn't been Gas Safe or Corgi since the 80s, so he wouldn't be allowed to touch it either! Obviously one of you horrible lot would be welcome.

In the meantime, I just don't have it serviced and keep it under observation. If I suddenly disappear, you'll know why.
 
All those parts are fitted dry (no wet work). Can't take more than 1 hour each to change a fan and pcb.

That's 2 out of the 10 hours. 8 hours to diagnose ?

£45/hr is cheap for my area.

A failed fan pressure switch is an easy test and hard to get wrong.

Pretty sure if you had called the technical helpdesk of the manufacturer and they had walked you through the process and found the fault with you, it would have taken less than 10 hours.
 
Cost is way over the top in my opinion, I cant see how it would take 4 visits and 10 hours to diagnose a fan or pressure switch fault.

I wouldnt have the nerve to ask for that amount.

What were the symptoms of the fault.
 
markadams said:
Cost is way over the top in my opinion, I cant see how it would take 4 visits and 10 hours to diagnose a fan or pressure switch fault.

I wouldnt have the nerve to ask for that amount.

What were the symptoms of the fault.
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I know, that's the point I was getting at. More incompetence than working hours.

I would expect a fan and pressure switch to be a charge of 4 hours plus parts and mark-up.

That would allow for 1 visit to diagnose.
Part supply.
1 visit to to repair.

But again it depends how your pricing is structured.
I know engineers that charge a minimum of 2 hours (this helps cover travel costs) and engineers who charge a call-out fee which covers the first hour plus half an hour to travel there.
 
Price depends on everything...location, day of week, time of day, what work I have on, weather. If some arrogant p**ck rings me on Friday at 14:30 then my terms will be eye watering! Prices have to be dynamic folks surly as is indeed life?
 
Rob Foster said:
Some ,'engineers' just throw new parts at boilers until it works again....proper people as you say dignose fault find and fix ...bg are prime at this because what they dont use just goes back...normal outfits cannot do this ..I know
Rob Foster aka centralheatking
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This is the reason my. Post was recently deleted.

The question was Engineer competence
 
Aqibi2000 said:
Stop deleting comments and see the fact I did not type anything about me doing any work on a boiler
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No you didn’t, but the fact that you ignored the advice given and still pushed for an answer that you was happy with says a lot. You are diagnosing parts on your boiler and then posting on here in the hope that we either help you or correct you. You were told on serveral occasions that we cannot do that. I would stop moaning and take the advice given of finding a recommended engineer and go from there.
 
Harvest Fields said:
No you didn’t,but the fact that you ignored the advice given and still pushed for answer that you was happy with says a lot. You are diagnosing parts on your boiler and then posting on here in the hope that we either help you correct you. You were told on serveral occasions that we cannot do that. I would stop moaning and take the advice given of finding a recommended engineer and go from there.
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Sorry but I have to draw a line here you're talking absolute nonsense.

I did not question again about my issue with the boiler after reading the comments of other engineers. So again I don't know where you are getting the not taking their advice line from.

My last comment on MY thread was regarding holding a engineer liable for their diagnosis, instead of just throwing parts at it. A few comments suggested to get someone competent in hence, I asked can I hold them responsible for a their diagnosis.
 
Aqibi2000 said:
Sorry but I have to draw a line here you're talking absolute nonsense.

My last comment on MY thread was regarding holding a engineer liable for their diagnosis, instead of just throwing parts at it.
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Just sounds to me like sour grapes. Also my comment after that was to ask around friends and family for a reliable recommended engineer. But I’m glad you’re drawing a line as I do not have to respond again.
 
Aqibi2000 said:
Sorry but I have to draw a line here you're talking absolute nonsense.

I did not question again about my issue with the boiler after reading the comments of other engineers. So again I don't know where you are getting the not taking their advice line from.

My last comment on MY thread was regarding holding a engineer liable for their diagnosis, instead of just throwing parts at it. A few comments suggested to get someone competent in hence, I asked can I hold them responsible for a their diagnosis.
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For a fact fields didn’t delete your thread I did

And stated why you weren’t listening in the thread

And this / these posts prove it

Get a gas safe engy in and pay him to diagnose and fix the issue

Get Ideal out to do a fixed price repair
 
Aqibi2000 said:
Sorry but I have to draw a line here you're talking absolute nonsense.

I did not question again about my issue with the boiler after reading the comments of other engineers. So again I don't know where you are getting the not taking their advice line from.

My last comment on MY thread was regarding holding a engineer liable for their diagnosis, instead of just throwing parts at it. A few comments suggested to get someone competent in hence, I asked can I hold them responsible for a their diagnosis.
Click to expand...

Couple of quotes spring to mind.

**** doesn't roll up hill.

Don't pith in the wind.
 
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