Is my charge reasonable?

[Graham Gee]

Four visits - one visit to diagnose problem as pressure switch or maybe fan, second visit to fit new pressure switch (fix failed within 2 days), third visit , fan declared fine now possible PCB error, 4th fitted replacement PCB

Charge time 10 hours at £45 per hour - is this reasonable ? Parts were extra.

 

[steadyon]

How much would a fixed price repair from manufacturer, including parts, have cost?

 

[Jim09876]

Sounds good to me, but I’m a plumber also. If I worked 40 hours for £500 I’d be thinking to myself, this guy earns £3600 a week WTF!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I would say it’s a bit much

 

[rpm]

I would say it’s a bit much

............. guesswork.

 

[Harvest Fields]

Four visits - one visit to diagnose problem as pressure switch or maybe fan, second visit to fit new pressure switch (fix failed within 2 days), third visit , fan declared fine now possible PCB error, 4th fitted replacement PCB

Charge time 10 hours at £45 per hour - is this reasonable ? Parts were extra.

Edit- due to repeat information

 

[Riley]

I would say rather high

 

[Riley]

Why did pressure switch fail

 

[Graham Gee]

Why did pressure switch fail

 

[Graham Gee]

He did not tell me.

 

[Rob Foster]

Four visits - one visit to diagnose problem as pressure switch or maybe fan, second visit to fit new pressure switch (fix failed within 2 days), third visit , fan declared fine now possible PCB error, 4th fitted replacement PCB

Charge time 10 hours at £45 per hour - is this reasonable ? Parts were extra.

well the usual questions ...where do you live ? £45 per hour is really not enough...central london £125.00 plus vat per hour,

its really the wrong price per hour ....not enough to get a competant engineer in my opinion..others might correct me...Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[Riley]

He did not tell me.

That’s where I’d start. If it were a faulty part I don’t see why you should be paying for part or labour

 

[SimonG]

Feck me could have fitted a new boiler in 10 hours.

I charge for the fix plus the parts. Not for experimenting and crossing fingers.

 

[rpm]

He did not tell me.

Sneaky thread title Graham.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Would expect it fixed within 2 vists else I can see the customer complaining

 

[Pickwickpick]

He did not tell me.

Are you the customer or the engineer?

 

[Graham Gee]

Edit- due to repeat information

Parts charged separately - just concerned that 10 hours labour is excessive

 

[Graham Gee]

Are you the customer or the engineer?

customer

 

[Ric2013]

Probably fair from the engineer's point of view, but depends whether the fault was one that was truly hard to diagnose or whether part of the tab is essentially a training cost. 'Was this a difficult repair or was he just a bit slow to pinpoint the cause?' may be the question.

Sometimes I find I'm taking longer than I expected because a job is hard (chargeable), and sometimes I find I'm taking longer because I've tackled the job arse-about-face (not chargeable).

 

[Rob Foster]

That’s where I’d start. If it were a faulty part I don’t see why you should be paying for part or labour

agree Riley...this price set up just does not stack up im my
opinion l..its not how we would approach a job like this
Rob Foster ...aka centralheatking

 

[king of pipes]

2 vists is normally enough a manufacturers service repair is only £300 - £400 labour and as many parts as it takes excluding the heat exchanger, you really should have recommended this to your customer . Kop

 

[Aire]

you really should have recommended this to your customer . Kop

He is the customer, he knows now

 

[king of pipes]

Ooophs well honesty is the best policy charge was a bit high .kop

 

[Alex-Gas]

It’s a difficult one.

Sometimes it only takes an hour for an experienced engineer to diagnose. May take another engineer 3-4 (plus some parts) to get to the bottom of it.

Cheap, doesn’t always work out cheap.

 

[Rob Foster]

It’s a difficult one.

Sometimes it only takes an hour for an experienced engineer to diagnose. May take another engineer 3-4 (plus some parts) to get to the bottom of it.

Cheap, doesn’t always work out cheap.

Some ,'engineers' just throw new parts at boilers until it works again....proper people as you say dignose fault find and fix ...bg are prime at this because what they dont use just goes back...normal outfits cannot do this ..I know
Rob Foster aka centralheatking

 

[hammers4spanner]

Waste of time repairing boilers these days to much running around for little reward.
If his hourly rate is 45 quid and it took 10 hours then it is what it is

 

[hammers4spanner]

Makes me chortle as i took my car to a garage got charged 90 labour plus another 110 for the part. I managed to drive to the garage the part was delivered i knew the fault and it took 20 mins to fit. Just paid it and went on my way, thought 200 was ok to get car working.
Now considering we goto the fault charge first hour , then have to pick up the part if its in then we have to go through the suppliers system to find it another hour. Drive back and fit it, and quite often the part is not in which costs more time.
Anything less than 100 labour doing boilers then whats the point

 

[Ric2013]

Makes me chortle as i took my car to a garage got charged 90 labour plus another 110 for the part. I managed to drive to the garage the part was delivered i knew the fault and it took 20 mins to fit. Just paid it and went on my way, thought 200 was ok to get car working.
Now considering we goto the fault charge first hour , then have to pick up the part if its in then we have to go through the suppliers system to find it another hour. Drive back and fit it, and quite often the part is not in which costs more time.
Anything less than 100 labour doing boilers then whats the point

What was the OP charged for labour?

 

[fixitflav]

Sounds good to me, but I’m a plumber also. If I worked 40 hours for £500 I’d be thinking to myself, this guy earns £3600 a week WTF!

40 hours @£45 per hour comes to £1800.

 

[Best]

Crazy! When I go to a faulty boiler, or cheaper items, like taps, I first consider the cost the new boiler or tap is. I wouldn’t spend close to the brand new item fixing the old.

Sometimes you have to take a hit when you fail to initially diagnose a fault and not charge for excess time.

 

[Lee Davies]

I wouldn't be questioning the price, but more the time allocated.

10 hours total for seem to be very easy faults to diagnose.
Without being on the job I could be wrong yes, but most faults contained within the boiler can be diagnosed within 30 minutes, especially fan and pressure switch issues.

Let's say he took 30 mins to diagnose each fault, that's 2 hours. Then we add an hour and a half total for fitting which takes us to 3.5 hours. Include any travel etc to merchants and I still struggle to see how we get above 6 hours total which gives a total of £270 labour, not the £450 you were charged.

To give you an idea of duration, I recently on a job removed lead from a gas meter and replaced with a new union, ran a gas pipe to the new utility room which was 5 metres away, installed a new combi boiler, installed a magnaclean filter, hung 6 radiators, installed a hive thermostat, filled balanced and vented system, all within 10 hours which included trips to the plumbers merchants and a lunch.

I would see he has overcharged, but without seeing the work and knowing the faults, don't quote me.

 

[Lee Davies]

Also, watch this video (Link at the bottom of this post).
The engineer you had seems to be similar, guess until solved.

I had to comment on this video it was so outrageous.

How to fault find your gas boiler

 

[Pickwickpick]

Also, watch this video (Link at the bottom of this post).
The engineer you had seems to be similar, guess until solved.

I had to comment on this video it was so outrageous.

How to fault find your gas boiler

That video is horrific and the comment section is even worse. He's advising someone who has admitted they have no gas training, let along on the gas safe register, on which parts to replace on their boilers. Its pretty disgraceful for someone in his position to be encouraging illegal work on boilers.

 

[Lee Davies]

That video is horrific and the comment section is even worse. He's advising someone who has admitted they have no gas training, let along on the gas safe register, on which parts to replace on their boilers. Its pretty disgraceful for someone in his position to be encouraging illegal work on boilers.

And the biggest offence is the fact he has no clue what he is doing.
Change parts until repaired basically !!!

But yes I agree, YouTube is a haven for DIY illegal workers. Gas Engineers/Installers should not be putting info into the public domain on how to carry out work.

 

[Pickwickpick]

And the biggest offence is the fact he has no clue what he is doing.
Change parts until repaired basically !!!

But yes I agree, YouTube is a haven for DIY illegal workers. Gas Engineers/Installers should not be putting info into the public domain on how to carry out work.

Yep, all the decent experienced gas engineers would never post such info on youtube, its those that more incompetently minded that don't see an issue with it, so like that video you end up with the blind leading the blind, but when you've got explosive gas & deadly CO involved, its not good!!!

 

[Ric2013]

Yep, all the decent experienced gas engineers would never post such info on youtube, its those that more incompetently minded that don't see an issue with it, so like that video you end up with the blind leading the blind, but when you've got explosive gas & deadly CO involved, its not good!!!

Oh Dereton33. Him again. Yes, argued with him on a few occasions.

He doesn't seem to know the right names for things, or have a proper awareness of the Water Regs. If he is a plumber himself, then he cannot be a very good one. His DIY plumbing advice is fairly bad.

And now he's a gas boilery person been doing this for years, it seems. And wanting to advice RGIs (because that video is allegedly for the benefit of Gas Safe installers).

So I will take his advice next time my boiler fails. I will call a RGI and insist s/he replace the thermocouple, the PCB and then the gas valve, in that order, and regardless of the symptoms. Pillock.

 

[Lee Davies]

Oh Dereton33. Him again. Yes, argued with him on a few occasions.

He doesn't seem to know the right names for things, or have a proper awareness of the Water Regs. If he is a plumber himself, then he cannot be a very good one. His DIY plumbing advice is fairly bad.

And now he's a gas boilery person been doing this for years, it seems. And wanting to advice RGIs (because that video is allegedly for the benefit of Gas Safe installers).

So I will take his advice next time my boiler fails. I will call a RGI and insist s/he replace the thermocouple, the PCB and then the gas valve, in that order, and regardless of the symptoms. Pillock.

The next part will make you sick !!!!

He earns approx £25,000 per year from his YouTube channel !!!!

 

[Pickwickpick]

The next part will make you sick !!!!

He earns approx £25,000 per year from his YouTube channel !!!!

WTF! Urgh, there's so much spivery on social media, like all of the so called influencers doing paid for reviews, ultimately leading to disasters like Fyre festival. Youtube are never going to shut him down as they're making even more than £25k off his channel and this crap just keeps being perpetuated.

 

[Ric2013]

The next part will make you sick !!!!

He earns approx £25,000 per year from his YouTube channel !!!!

Oh well. A manager at a local wholesaler makes more than that I expect and generally his staff would be able to do a better job if he stayed at home to mow the lawn. In the scheme of things, Dereton33 probably does less harm than a lot of people on that salary.

 

[hammers4spanner]

I wouldn't be questioning the price, but more the time allocated.

10 hours total for seem to be very easy faults to diagnose.
Without being on the job I could be wrong yes, but most faults contained within the boiler can be diagnosed within 30 minutes, especially fan and pressure switch issues.

Let's say he took 30 mins to diagnose each fault, that's 2 hours. Then we add an hour and a half total for fitting which takes us to 3.5 hours. Include any travel etc to merchants and I still struggle to see how we get above 6 hours total which gives a total of £270 labour, not the £450 you were charged.

To give you an idea of duration, I recently on a job removed lead from a gas meter and replaced with a new union, ran a gas pipe to the new utility room which was 5 metres away, installed a new combi boiler, installed a magnaclean filter, hung 6 radiators, installed a hive thermostat, filled balanced and vented system, all within 10 hours which included trips to the plumbers merchants and a lunch.

I would see he has overcharged, but without seeing the work and knowing the faults, don't quote me.

If you done that yourself then your a liar as it takes 30 minutes just to clear shoes out to get to a meter

 

[64degrees]

To me this is this highlights a classic problem in the industry - the hourly rate of the engineer doesn’t just cover hours on site, it’s travel time, ins, van, tools, and (hopefully) experience.
But with parts being expensive the cost of repair soon racks up. Two visits and you’re in new boiler territory. It’s true some folk ‘earning while they learning’ and costing the customer money for the privilege, but to me the manufacturers should pick up their game - boilers have computers in them these days, but most fault codes are woolly to say the least. Mechanics do charge £90 per hour, but their computer diagnoses which part is at fault. Let’s face it not many boiler parts are fixable - it’s about identifying which parts at fault and swapping it out. That’s my rant after England beat Ireland - imagine if they’d lost

 

[malx42]

My plumber looked at a boiler. Unsure wher the problem lay, pump would be £135 plus fitting ... he didn’t want to swap out parts hoping to fix it. He suggested Worcester Bosch. Cost of vist plus swapping some boiler parts, along with a year contract and a service. £300. The problem was a leak in the hot water system ... the 2l per minute leak. Not covered by the £300. WB had step by step trouble shooting on a computer to guide the engineer in diagnosis.

If you can’t fix it yourself , it’s not really professional to charge an hourly rate as you learn from your mistakes. Charging OTT will damage your reputation.

 

[Lee Davies]

If I charged to swap a part and then realised that part was in fact not faulty, I would replace the original and keep the part and not charge to the customer.

But that wouldn't happen, as I know how to fault find properly.

 

[Rob Foster]

Look this is a tricky issue ..when to write off a boiler. It is always open to abuse, and the badly informed . Which is why a genuine local engineer is often best, esp. one that is trusted. Others use BG there really is nobody inbetween in my opinion. Rob Foster ...centralheatking. Using a regular and trusted outfit also buys
peace of mind and a good nights sleep ....priceless in my opinion

 

[Rob Foster]

The next part will make you sick !!!!

He earns approx £25,000 per year from his YouTube channel !!!!

Is it an offence under GSR to give advice when not qualified
probably not, but if there is proof online then he might find himself in trouble...internet law is a rapidly expanding area...i know I sleep with my barrister
Rob Foster ...centralheatking

 

[Ric2013]

Is it an offence under GSR to give advice when not qualified
probably not, but if there is proof online then he might find himself in trouble...internet law is a rapidly expanding area...i know I sleep with my barrister
Rob Foster ...centralheatking

He's covered his arse by stating the work has to be carried out by a Gas-Safe Registered Gas Installer, though.

 

[Rob Foster]

He's covered his arse by stating the work has to be carried out by a Gas-Safe Registered Gas Installer, though.

I dont like that..I will have a think..he maybe might have a problem...Inwill ask my barrister later...if you get my drift ...Rob Foster ,,,chking

 

[ShaunCorbs]

He won’t gas safe can only come in when someone charges for gas work and there not reg

If they do it for free gas safe don’t care

 

[Harvest Fields]

Is it an offence under GSR to give advice when not qualified
probably not, but if there is proof online then he might find himself in trouble...internet law is a rapidly expanding area...i know I sleep with my barrister
Rob Foster ...centralheatking

And how is he Rob?

He won’t gas safe can only come in when someone charges for gas work and there not reg

If they do it for free gas safe don’t care

unfortunately this is the case.

 

[fixitflav]

And how is he Rob?

unfortunately this is the case.

So presumably you can work on on your own boiler (as long as you don't pay yourself ) and that's OK? We're often told otherwise on this and other forums.