The reason I don't use flexis...

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.....I've seen too many of them burst especially the cheap imported ones to place any confidence in them at all. One was on the counter in PTS today being returned as it had burst and had a quarter inch gash down the middle of it. I've seen perfectly installed ones with no kinks, twists or strains of any kinds burst for no apparent reason. At the end of the day they are basically a rubber hose covered in braid.

I now only use copper and having come through and used the Speedfit renaissance, I have a sense of pride with my work with copper and work completed with my bending machine. I can bend an offset very quickly and know that it won't burst either.

I'm not in any way making a dig at those who use flexis and plastic plumbing, for everyone is entitled to have their own preference, but in my opinion copper and soldered fittings or Kuterlite compression fittings will outlast any plastic installation and look far more professional.
 
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maybe im too young in the game to commet, but ive only seen one that has failed and that was because it was kinked. i really rate them. they are great on cold inlets to cisterns because they are less likely to cross thread as you can 'feel' it better.
i also think they are good for connections on bath taps that are on the back of a wall. you can connect hep to them, and push the bath into place without worrying you are straining it too much :)
 
Glad to hear you are a "convert" to copper & brass System! Also, it is a good way to sell yourself to potential customers.
As you say, no matter how you look at it, flexis are just a light rubber hose.
 
What happens when you have to use flexis for fan coils etc?
 
copper and solder is first choice for me always, but plastic and braided hoses have there place,
 
claireplumb said:
maybe im too young in the game to commet, but ive only seen one that has failed and that was because it was kinked. i really rate them. they are great on cold inlets to cisterns because they are less likely to cross thread as you can 'feel' it better.
i also think they are good for connections on bath taps that are on the back of a wall. you can connect hep to them, and push the bath into place without worrying you are straining it too much :)
Click to expand...

Go on, - do it properly, - use copper straight to taps, carefully bent/ soldered & push the bath in & connect the other ends! :grin:
 
claireplumb said:
you can connect hep to them, and push the bath into place without worrying you are straining it too much :)
Click to expand...
The one and only failure I had with Speedfit was connecting to a 22mm flexi on a bath tap. It was properly compressed, used the correct insert and a copper olive, but it lasted for two weeks and blew itself into orbit for no reason at all. I stopped using it after this as once is enough for me.
 
used loads of flexis never had a problem or seen one burst why do some plumbers think if its not copper it must be carp!
 
markfxy said:
used loads of flexis never had a problem or seen one burst why do some plumbers think if its not copper it must be carp!
Click to expand...
Not Carp, maybe a bucket of trout mate. Not snobbery or the "we're better than you coz we use copper and you dont". My post is not slating plastics and flexis it's my opinion and I have seen too many failures to feel confident about using them. If you like using plastic and flexis, then ok that is your preference.
 
That's the problem with the debate. We don't know what the actual liklihood is. We only have personal experience, anecdotal evidence and educated guesses. None of that equates to data but it can all build a superficially convincing but realistically distorted picture.

Say if we actually had the figure, right now, of how likely a flexible hose is likely to leak/burst at some point in say a 10 year period, averaged out, taking into consideration all qualities of hose and all applications, then we could decide whether we deemed that risk acceptible or a liability.

How unlikely copper is to fail is a separate point. There could be an imaginary super material that will last ten thousand years but that wouldn't invalidate the use of copper by comparison.

What we need is the odds.

something like this..

100,000-1 = fine by me.

1000-1 = not wise
 
claireplumb said:
maybe im too young in the game to commet, but ive only seen one that has failed and that was because it was kinked. i really rate them. they are great on cold inlets to cisterns because they are less likely to cross thread as you can 'feel' it better.
i also think they are good for connections on bath taps that are on the back of a wall. you can connect hep to them, and push the bath into place without worrying you are straining it too much :)
Click to expand...
tho i always stand by you claire, i just carn't on this one..sorry
YES.....it breaks my heart :cry_smile: ***
 
and AND absolutely no amount of persuasion will make me change my mind on this one :) :)
 
I use flexis most of the time but do have a few tap connectors in my boxes from my "earlier" days.

I must admit, a flexi going to the underneath of a wc looks much smarter then copper pipe (and is much easier to deal with when it comes to changing the inlet valve.)
 
Claire and Dancin,
I can just imagine you two popping the question and exchanging compression rings at the alter....
 
Best said:
Go on, - do it properly, - use copper straight to taps, carefully bent/ soldered & push the bath in & connect the other ends! :grin:
Click to expand...

i agree, stand the bath on one short end, mount the taps, waste and feet, then measure and bend 2 square tails, fully tighten and drop bath into place then connect at the side of the basin, job done, this is the way we used to do cast baths and it was so simple to do (once we had humphed it up into the bathroom)
 
markfxy said:
used loads of flexis never had a problem or seen one burst why do some plumbers think if its not copper it must be carp!
Click to expand...

they are for DIY, not professionals, there isnt a place you must fit a flexi that i cant fit copper, its not snobbery its pride and skill
 
The only place I will use flexis now is when kitchen taps come with them. Rigid pipework underneath a kitchen sink isn't that easy to do, risk of molten solder dropping on you as you are upside down etc.

The only time I use plastic plumbing is if I have to run pipework in a loft that has been fully insulated, i.e. clipping pipes down is a nightmare without ruining the insulation.
 
Totally agree Kirk, and copper tails with a acrylic bath adds strength to it with no movement. I've also seen taps turning after a while with flexis as they lack the rigidity of a copper tail and a tap adaptor.

Good debate this. Good to get opinions from all divides.
 
system3 said:
Totally agree Kirk, and copper tails with a acrylic bath adds strength to it with no movement. I've also seen taps turning after a while with flexis as they lack the rigidity of a copper tail and a tap adaptor.

Good debate this. Good to get opinions from all divides.
Click to expand...

any debate where we are right is a good debate
 
nope, im still not convinced, u lot r too old skol. nout wrong with flexis. ok, they may not last potentially as long as copper but they are so so useful in areas where you cant reach, or pre- pipe taps, etc.

dancinplumba and I will marry one day, ur all invited, but instead of throwing conffetti, you have to throw plumbers mait at us (yer, its sticky and messy but i think plumba n i will love it), and our rings will be made of hardened LS-X, so it fits our fingers perfectly.... oh, and my dress will be made of thousands of taps of PTFE tape :)

perfect, just perfect
what a dream boat!
 
Only place I see flexis as being the only method is for back to wall toilets.
 
ive just seen the newer posts, yes there is more possibility that the tap will move if it is on flexis, but the tap should be tightened enough in the first place.... it doesnt matter about what connection is beneath it :)
 
Claire, save yourself a fortune and just get married in PTS.

Being so called "old skool" means we've been around long enough to know better.
 
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claireplumb said:
ive just seen the newer posts, yes there is more possibility that the tap will move if it is on flexis, but the tap should be tightened enough in the first place.... it doesnt matter about what connection is beneath it :)
Click to expand...
Copper pipe adds to the strength of the tap, so helps prevent it turning. Plastic or flexis do nothing.
 
My opinion is copper is best and that flexi's and plastic present a comparatively increased risk of leaks. But I don't know what that risk actually is and I don't think anyone here does either, personal experience or not.

I also think people are inclined to defend their usage because they want to use them. We should treat those opinions we hold which we happen to want to hold with the greatest suspicion.

And so, given the fact I'm not skilled enough to use copper everywhere, and given the fact I do a lot of jobbing work where the clock ticks fast and you spend half your time under a sink or squeezed somewhere inaccessible, I use flexi's often and plastic ocassionally and work on the hope (not assumption) that the risk is small enough that I'd have to be pretty unlucky.

But the truth is it is a niggling worry and if I were skilled enough to be able to use copper everywhere in a timely fashion I'd use it everywhere.

So perhaps the answer is practise for homework.
 
Good post Watertight. May I suggest that you bend a supply of usable offsets suitable for a number of applications and keep these in your van as I do. Most wash basins can use a 60mm offset and if you bend a few right angles as well and some crossovers, you will have a ready made supply that will do for most jobs. You'll feel more satisfied with your work too. Use any medium size cuttings left over from jobs, it saves a lot of time and if you make these up in your spare time, it can actually become an enjoyable "chore" as well as good practice.

Solder/pre-compress any tap adaptors before connecting to the basin and you'll soon be flying through using copper as your preference.
 
Flexis are very useful sometimes, especially when piping up those awkward gas hobs..
 
claireplumb said:
ive just seen the newer posts, yes there is more possibility that the tap will move if it is on flexis, but the tap should be tightened enough in the first place.... it doesnt matter about what connection is beneath it :)
Click to expand...

you can only tighten a plastic jam nut so much,
plastic jam nut + hot water + flexi + hep2o= "hiya, remember me, you fitted my bath, well theres water coming through the living room ceiling"
we used to keep brass jam nuts from 3/4" ballcocks and swap the inside one for plastic so we had brass for the taps, and thats with tap adaptors and copper
 
System3: i know where ur all comin from, but i just dont trust fibre washers... sooo many times ive come across a copper tap connector with a broken fibre washer, or LS-X, or mastic all over it, or its been cross threaded...
a great example to use a flexi is when u have to replace an old tap with a new one and the new tap has a longer thread than the old, so you have the option of cutting the copper back and putting a new valve(which so often isnt there) on and a flexi because there isnt space to solder a copper pipe on with out burning the wall or the bath.
and often, the pipe has already been bent to suit the old so ur already struggling to find a long enough lenght of copper that you can connect to.
 
I used to use alot of plastic pipe a flexi's when I worked for a firm and they supplied us with materials for a job, and sometimes it will just save you alot of time to use it. Now I am self employed I use copper 99% of the time, but flexi's and plastic can get you out of trouble at times. I have managed to feed plastic through under fully tiled rooms by lifting a board in the rooms either side etc, same for expensive wood flooring. This would not have been possible with just copper.
 
Best said:
Copper pipe adds to the strength of the tap, so helps prevent it turning. Plastic or flexis do nothing.
Click to expand...

what would you rather change, the inside bath tap that is onto copper with FI adaptor and red stag, or a hep20 pipe and flexi (ok we know what is easier to change, but the flexi has only been in for a few months and the red stag for 30yrs thats the difference)
 
i dont think Whn1 knows what were talkina bout...
but im fighting my corner... im listening to what ur all sayin.... but id love to see u try getting into the tight spaces ive had (jokes aside) to and try soldering a pipe or not use a flexi...
 
claireplumb said:
nope, im still not convinced, u lot r too old skol. nout wrong with flexis. ok, they may not last potentially as long as copper but they are so so useful in areas where you cant reach, or pre- pipe taps, etc.

dancinplumba and I will marry one day, ur all invited, but instead of throwing conffetti, you have to throw plumbers mait at us (yer, its sticky and messy but i think plumba n i will love it), and our rings will be made of hardened LS-X, so it fits our fingers perfectly.... oh, and my dress will be made of thousands of taps of PTFE tape :)

perfect, just perfect
what a dream boat!
Click to expand...

OOOOooo he says (knees wobbling ) never more a truer sight of lovliness......
 
claireplumb said:
i dont think Whn1 knows what were talkina bout...
but im fighting my corner... im listening to what ur all sayin.... but id love to see u try getting into the tight spaces ive had (jokes aside) to and try soldering a pipe or not use a flexi...
Click to expand...

Why do you think you get in tighter spaces than the rest of us lol???
 
claireplumb said:
i dont think Whn1 knows what were talkina bout...
but im fighting my corner... im listening to what ur all sayin.... but id love to see u try getting into the tight spaces ive had (jokes aside) to and try soldering a pipe or not use a flexi...
Click to expand...


the space between a wall and bath hasnt changed much over the years, ok it used to be about 2" and now its about 50mm, but the blow lamp and pipe slice still fit in
 
whats red stag? :s

i use copper for all of first fix, but i beleive flexis are fine to use when it comes to basins, baths and toilets.

what do u guys use when u have the toilets thats u have to connect to the water before pushing them back to the wall? flexis.... :)
 
kirkgas said:
the space between a wall and bath hasnt changed much over the years, ok it used to be about 2" and now its about 50mm, but the blow lamp and pipe slice still fit in
Click to expand...

thats not always simple of cost effective... in my opinion... expesh the side thats closest to the wall
 
Claire. we've all seen incorrectly installed fittings of all types, including those that use fibre washers, but that is the fault of the installer and not of the material. I fault flexis as the material not for those who install them.

Copper will outlast flexis and plastic and that is why I prefer it. As professionals we have to be a cut above the diy brigade and I take more pride and satisfaction from a installation using copper.

By the way, most washing machine manufacturers recommend changing washing machine hoses every 5 years, so where does that leave flexis?
 
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