Start up business

[Livvid]

Can anybody recommend a path of training to setting up your own business.
Is it barking to assume that you can do your 6129 and just become a plumber?

I get the jist that the Gas must be done after the 6129 so that you can tackle all situations and also the basic Part P for basic shower installs etc.

Can I trade as a Plumber with a van on just a 6129? Is that a realistic possiability? Or is experiance and the other courses essential upon start up.

Any info on the subject much appreciated.

Sorry if this is repeated elsewhere just I cannot find the thread if so.

 

[hiretools]

Hello mate,right as the law stands yes you can go out as a plumber and carry out jobs that are not ***bersome to gas. fitting bath suites and the like for whichyou are trained in are perfectly legal as you have your tech cert for competence in how to tackle certain aspects of plumbing. I myself is starting a 6129 course on monday. Hope this helps.

Let me also add. even though your tech cert gives you that start up it cannot forecast what problems lie ahead it will not be easy unless you already have a customer base in place but as far as the tech cert goes you can trade on it as a self employed plumber.(As the sayin goes practice makes perfect.)

 

[Livvid]

Hello mate,right as the law stands yes you can go out as a plumber and carry out jobs that are not ***bersome to gas. fitting bath suites and the like for whichyou are trained in are perfectly legal as you have your tech cert for competence in how to tackle certain aspects of plumbing. I myself is starting a 6129 course on monday. Hope this helps.

Let me also add. even though your tech cert gives you that start up it cannot forecast what problems lie ahead it will not be easy unless you already have a customer base in place but as far as the tech cert goes you can trade on it as a self employed plumber.(As the sayin goes practice makes perfect.)

Thank you.

I wonder what percentage of enquiries are pure plumbing and do not include gas, the vans that I see about all advertise heating and Plumbing, so I guess the gas side of the job is 50% of daily enquiries, The start up fees of a new company as large I guess a part time start would be best until a client base is set up.

My things to consider costing.

Tools
Website
Google Adwords
Van
PC & Printer
Paper and Marketing stock, business cards.
Workwear
Insurance Vehicle
Insurance Liability.

Can anybody help me with this list and things to consider.

Thankyou

 

[dontknowitall]

I started effectively with a 6129 course and a few other bits and pieces so it can be done but I was lucky with my initial start, mainly from contacts I already knew before I got going. I then went through a very quiet patch and now after two years I'm about 3/4 full time.

Best single tips I can give with your above list is:

Tools - buy as you need them - don't spend too much in the beginning but make sure you get a few good quality plumbing items, e.g. pump pliers, adjustable spanners. Best tools I have are Jaw Droppers (£45) and wet vacuum (around £60). There's £100 gone straight away

Website - spend as little as possible to begin with
Google Adwords - not sure they're worth anything - a well set up website has me at the top of most search engines and top 10 with a few choice phrases

Van - something reliable but again spend as little as possible - if things go well you can save up for a better one

PC & Printer - off ebay or Amazon

Paper and Marketing stock, business cards. I use a local printer for a few business cards and my PC for the rest of my stuff

Workwear - I suppose something to cover your skin's a good idea but generally you don't get as filthy as builders

Insurance Vehicle - cheap as possible

Insurance Liability - search this website for cheap insurance

When starting a new business it's tempting to throw lots of money at it but if you start as cheaply as possible and run profitably, spending when you've saved, it saves huge amounts in interest rates, etc and you don't run too much risk of bankruptcy by cashflow problems, which occur frequently in your first few months. Cashflow is about the biggest killer to new businesses where they've spent large amounts in the setting up process and have little other money to run the day to day operations.

Good luck though.

 

[oldplumber]

Can anybody recommend a path of training to setting up your own business.
Is it barking to assume that you can do your 6129 and just become a plumber?

I get the jist that the Gas must be done after the 6129 so that you can tackle all situations and also the basic Part P for basic shower installs etc.

Can I trade as a Plumber with a van on just a 6129? Is that a realistic possiability? Or is experiance and the other courses essential upon start up.

Any info on the subject much appreciated.

Sorry if this is repeated elsewhere just I cannot find the thread if so.

As it stands at present, you dont need any quals to trade as a plumber doing bathrooms kitchens etc. Obviously it is better for all concerned that people working in the industry are qualified and have the relevant experience to ensure they can and do do a decent job, but the only enforcement that supervises them officially is the buildings control officers, who have the power to reject work that doesnt meet required standards. Its then upto the poor old customer to make the works compliant and chase up the cowboy who failed to do things properly in the first place.

 

[tamz]

Is it barking to assume that you can do your 6129 and just become a plumber?

Totally.
It is a useless piece of paper that is only good for wiping your **** with. Why C&G ever put their name to all these so called courses is beyond me. Probably money! Being dropped anyway.
You will never get a start with anyone with that so you will have to join the rest of the (dis)guisers out there. Nvq2 min nvq3 better.+

Save your cash and jump right in. No qualifications required. Buy a readers digest book of plumbing or whatever other plumbing book you can find, buy a van and some tools, hand out a few flyers or stick an ad in a local paper and go out and inflict yourself on some unsuspecting customers (mainly at their expense).
Experience will be the best teacher you will ever get and after a year or so you will decide to rap it in as the streets are not lined with as much gold as you though.

I have to laugh at the comments of "i have put in a bathroom " or "i have changed a set of taps with no problem so i have some experience"
FFS wise up.

 

[newbie1]

you are living in cuckoo land

 

[tamz]

No
But anyone who thinks doing a ? week course makes them a plumber is.

 

[Livvid]

I never said that I expected the 6129 to make me a magic plumber. I was enquiring as to the course best taken to gather the knowledge to set me in the right direction, obvious experiance comes later.

Pot o Gold, love it. I'm already in construction so I know the game.

Anyway thanks for your info, look out general public and expect to see me on Rogue Traders then Eh?!!! lol.

As it stands at present, you dont need any quals to trade as a plumber doing bathrooms kitchens etc. Obviously it is better for all concerned that people working in the industry are qualified and have the relevant experience to ensure they can and do do a decent job, but the only enforcement that supervises them officially is the buildings control officers, who have the power to reject work that doesnt meet required standards. Its then upto the poor old customer to make the works compliant and chase up the cowboy who failed to do things properly in the first place.

Thankyou.

I started effectively with a 6129 course and a few other bits and pieces so it can be done but I was lucky with my initial start, mainly from contacts I already knew before I got going. I then went through a very quiet patch and now after two years I'm about 3/4 full time.

Best single tips I can give with your above list is:

Tools - buy as you need them - don't spend too much in the beginning but make sure you get a few good quality plumbing items, e.g. pump pliers, adjustable spanners. Best tools I have are Jaw Droppers (£45) and wet vacuum (around £60). There's £100 gone straight away

Website - spend as little as possible to begin with
Google Adwords - not sure they're worth anything - a well set up website has me at the top of most search engines and top 10 with a few choice phrases

Van - something reliable but again spend as little as possible - if things go well you can save up for a better one

PC & Printer - off ebay or Amazon

Paper and Marketing stock, business cards. I use a local printer for a few business cards and my PC for the rest of my stuff

Workwear - I suppose something to cover your skin's a good idea but generally you don't get as filthy as builders

Insurance Vehicle - cheap as possible

Insurance Liability - search this website for cheap insurance

When starting a new business it's tempting to throw lots of money at it but if you start as cheaply as possible and run profitably, spending when you've saved, it saves huge amounts in interest rates, etc and you don't run too much risk of bankruptcy by cashflow problems, which occur frequently in your first few months. Cashflow is about the biggest killer to new businesses where they've spent large amounts in the setting up process and have little other money to run the day to day operations.

Good luck though.

Thank you

 

[hiretools]

Just wanted to bring up this age old subject of what you do and don't need to be a plumber. What people need to ask themselves is how much hard work are you prepared to put in a 6129 is just that a cert of a recognised something I have already installed two bathrooms three rads two extra taps and a pump, plus 2x open gate valves 1x 3 way motorised valve. (see my previous threads). you are only as good as the effort you put in too learning everything. And even then life experience you just can't beat. It's that simple.I start my course on Monday and already have three full installs lined up when i finish, but on top of my 6129 im doing my Part L,
Logic,
water regs.
plus central heating. And i'm still going to go to college for my nvq plus me gas safe acs acessments and portfolio. And im first aid trained plus ive done 17th edition electrics to boot you can never learn too much it just doesn't exist. Live long and prosper.

 

[Livvid]

Have to say,no course can prepare you for the valves that fail to open nor the airlocks that can take place.

Best bit of kit to buy, wet vac.

 

[PlumbBobBob]

not only valves that fail to open but ones that fail to close. totally agree about the wet vac.

 

[helpsy]

wet/dry vac from wickes along with a combined filter.Most useful/good value bit of kit you can have.

 

[Toddyplumb]

My advise is to try and get an apprenticeship.
How would you feel if you took your car to the gagage and the mechanic had only passed a course in reading Haynes manuals and decided he would learn the rest on your car !! And charge you for it as well !

 

[robdavis]

There's hardly any apprenticship schemes which take on adults over 25 years old. For most adults, going back to full time college isn't possible as they may have mortgage / kids / rent / expenditures which requires full time work. Studying a 6129 (maybe distance) seems to be the only option and I don't really understand why it's given such a bad rep.

Whenever I read through forums like this I just get a feeling there's so much negativity about new plumbers, especially ones who have 'only' got a 6129.

These new plumbers can't be all bad and surely the available work depends on how well you market yourself, how well you do the job and where you live.

Obvioulsy it's better to get fully qualified up to NVQ L3 and Gas plus trimmings, but instead of waiting 3-5 years to get fully qualified why not get some experience in once you've finished the 6129?

My plan is to finish the 6129, get set up slowly and start looking for little jobs around my area whilst I continue to work at the gas qualification / part p etc.

Sometimes I wonder if the people who are so negative about the 6129 spent so many years of their life in college and are now ****ed because people are getting qualified whilst they earn money or at a quicker pace than going to college. They might be jealous.

My advice is to not listen to the 'neg heads'. When you want to get out there and be a plumber, do it! Practice your trade and nurture your customers so that when you're totally qualified, you've got a good foothold. People say that this tech cert is worth nothing, but I say it does. If you work hard and know what you're doing, what is stopping you from being better than anyone else?

It's not some magic skill that only some people posess because they went through college or an apprenticeship, all it takes is dedication, knowledge, and your wits to succeed. We might get lucky with jobs, we'll probably have droughts, but there are customers out there to find which will make us a living.

Everybody has to start out somewhere with no experience, but that doesn't last very long.

Surely this forum is to help people be a good plumber and to support fellow tradepeople, I'm interested to talk to new starters in business to get tips and to give tips.

 

[Avatar]

I have to say from expereince as i have the 6129 myself, with a relatively sucessful business - really think twice before doing this!

I cannot in good faith recommend the same path I took to others for many reasons:

1) This is the worst time to be a plumber, we are in the pit of the credit crunch after a huge boom in plumbing. This translates into about 10 plumbers for each job out there. People are cutting their prices to silly money. Then you have polish plumbers and builders too. Its not a good time at all. For god's sake retrain as something else that actuallty is in demand!!!!

2) I have manged to become skillful through many years of rigorous and painful learning which is not for the faint hearted. Can you instal bathrooms after the 6129 - yes. Should you - no!!
You are going to come unstuck just fitting a tap, or bedding a basin waste, let alone fitting a whole bathroom! You are opening yourself up to a world of hurt - I am not sure that you can legally get insurance for your work after the 6129. I am pretty sure the insurance company would rip your claim to bits if you tried . . .

You would learn more from doing a one week diy crash course in plumbing, but you certainly dont qualify to earn £50 per hour afterwards.

I hate to say it, despite this being the route I took - you will do crap work for lots of money, or crap work for almost no money.

Either way you are going to not benefit yourself, and make the situation worse for other plumbers who are trying to do good work . . .

If you have a good job that pays well, dont for gods sake throw it away to become a plumber in these uncertain times!!!

 

[robdavis]

Yeah you're right. The economic climate is stifling right now, this recession is so deep I'm just going to roll over and die because of it.

Which course / climate makes starting Plumbing easy? In the mean time, I'm going to complain about how hard it all is and blame it on the Polish.

 

[rumpo]

there can be a big difference between a business and a trade ,being good at what you do ,ie a plumber ,dosent mean your going to be good at running a business plumbing ,this applies to every trade, proffesion, going ,you can have no talent but if you know how too market yourself ,open doors,and be thick skinned you can still do very well over those how had said talent

 

[moony]

There's hardly any apprenticship schemes which take on adults over 25 years old. For most adults, going back to full time college isn't possible as they may have mortgage / kids / rent / expenditures which requires full time work. Studying a 6129 (maybe distance) seems to be the only option and I don't really understand why it's given such a bad rep.

Whenever I read through forums like this I just get a feeling there's so much negativity about new plumbers, especially ones who have 'only' got a 6129.

These new plumbers can't be all bad and surely the available work depends on how well you market yourself, how well you do the job and where you live.

Obvioulsy it's better to get fully qualified up to NVQ L3 and Gas plus trimmings, but instead of waiting 3-5 years to get fully qualified why not get some experience in once you've finished the 6129?

My plan is to finish the 6129, get set up slowly and start looking for little jobs around my area whilst I continue to work at the gas qualification / part p etc.

Sometimes I wonder if the people who are so negative about the 6129 spent so many years of their life in college and are now ****ed because people are getting qualified whilst they earn money or at a quicker pace than going to college. They might be jealous.

My advice is to not listen to the 'neg heads'. When you want to get out there and be a plumber, do it! Practice your trade and nurture your customers so that when you're totally qualified, you've got a good foothold. People say that this tech cert is worth nothing, but I say it does. If you work hard and know what you're doing, what is stopping you from being better than anyone else?

It's not some magic skill that only some people posess because they went through college or an apprenticeship, all it takes is dedication, knowledge, and your wits to succeed. We might get lucky with jobs, we'll probably have droughts, but there are customers out there to find which will make us a living.

Everybody has to start out somewhere with no experience, but that doesn't last very long.

Surely this forum is to help people be a good plumber and to support fellow tradepeople, I'm interested to talk to new starters in business to get tips and to give tips.

come back in twelve months matey with a long list of happy customers and i will back you hundred percent - ive always said and always will i dont hate the player i hate the game- its the course providers miselling i hate not the lads doing whatever they can to earn a good living - if the same college whose offered you the 6129 offered you the proper nvq level 2 with full portfolio then i would say go for it - its what the tech cert is that i dont agree with - its the theory part, its being put in a bay and told to pipe up something, its not telling you the full story of how things can go wrong, and how to solve problems you will definately come across - and its the fact it gives people false confidence - which then sends them out self employed - knocking off jobs cheaply lowering the standard of work and wages.

take this into consideration, recently i was asked to pipe up 75 metres of 28mm, linking a log burner to a rayburn to a cylinder, immediately said a neutriliser is needed - set out the lay out - a lot of work so the bloke askjed for a day rate - i said 240 a day me and a labourer. Its ok he replied someone else will do the pipework for 120 a day and he doesnt need a neutriliser, and all these stats, heat leaks and pumps i was going to add. Haha ok then pal off i go infomring him he would be installing a very dangerous system - phone goes 3 days later other lad wasnt interested in job and asked me to go back - turns out the other plumber had only been in the game 6 months, and was honest about this system being out of reach of him.

can you see why some plumbers and heating engineers get on there high horse now - not a personal thing and im sure your doing what you have to to feed your family and all that - but so are we matey.

good luck with it all though. i wish everyone the chance to succeed.

 

[dc84]

Hi mate, maybe you can get some advice from my situation.

Im 26, i did a nvq2 in plumbing in 2003 and was working for a local company untill jan 2010. i did my acs last year and have been gas safe registered for a year.

I have been running my own business since jan this year.
I do ok, i have work most days but not everyday, im not earning as much as i could do working for a company.
What you need to remember is in this field of work reputation is everything and you wont get a good reputation by doing a fast track plumbing course because simply you wont be a very good plumber, it wont be your fault, how can you be any good with such little experience??
98% of my work is word of mouth, I turn up on time, do a good job and don't charge the earth. Im a good plumber/gas engineer because i've got the experience and learnt from mistakes made.

Bottom line is it takes at least five years to be good enough to go it alone, you can do jobs on your own working for a company after relatively little time as other people can help you out, to work for yourself you need to be able to get over every problem that can come up and believe me a simple job can turn to a nightmare very quickly.

Also like others have said so many plumbers are competing for work nowadays its just driving prices down to a point where its getting hard to earn a decent wage.

If I was you id consider a different career or if your dead set on plumbing do a nvq2 evening class and ring as many plumbing companys as you can and tell them how keen you are, they may give you a job, then you can learn the ropes, as there is a lot to learn!

Good luck.

 

[Toddyplumb]

Perseverance is the name of the game when looking for an apprenticeship . Our latest apprentice is 25 so it can and does happen !

 

[robdavis]

come back in twelve months matey with a long list of happy customers and i will back you hundred percent - ive always said and always will i dont hate the player i hate the game- its the course providers miselling i hate not the lads doing whatever they can to earn a good living - if the same college whose offered you the 6129 offered you the proper nvq level 2 with full portfolio then i would say go for it - its what the tech cert is that i dont agree with - its the theory part, its being put in a bay and told to pipe up something, its not telling you the full story of how things can go wrong, and how to solve problems you will definately come across - and its the fact it gives people false confidence - which then sends them out self employed - knocking off jobs cheaply lowering the standard of work and wages.

take this into consideration, recently i was asked to pipe up 75 metres of 28mm, linking a log burner to a rayburn to a cylinder, immediately said a neutriliser is needed - set out the lay out - a lot of work so the bloke askjed for a day rate - i said 240 a day me and a labourer. Its ok he replied someone else will do the pipework for 120 a day and he doesnt need a neutriliser, and all these stats, heat leaks and pumps i was going to add. Haha ok then pal off i go infomring him he would be installing a very dangerous system - phone goes 3 days later other lad wasnt interested in job and asked me to go back - turns out the other plumber had only been in the game 6 months, and was honest about this system being out of reach of him.

can you see why some plumbers and heating engineers get on there high horse now - not a personal thing and im sure your doing what you have to to feed your family and all that - but so are we matey.

good luck with it all though. i wish everyone the chance to succeed.

I don't see how your example of the complicated log burner system proves anything? If you had only been working for 6 months, could you fit something so techinical? I don't expect to know everything immediately and I doubt that anyone can know everything when they start. It's obvious that the more experienced engineers will have more confidence, knowledge and chance for getting the work. I think this group of experienced and qualified individuals feel that the plumbing market belongs to them, newbies aren't welcome unless they do it the old-fashioned way - apprenticeships.

I want to be a plumber, I am going to learn as much about it as possible and then become experienced and qualified enough to take on the complicated jobs.

This recession won't last forever, the economy is going to be buoyant again. Might take a few years, might take 10. But when it's all good again, I'll be there ready to take advantage of it.

I take on board all that is said about the industry, especially from you lot. I'm not so pig headed to take no heed of warnings, however surely it IS possible to get work and to succeed?

If there are any other training plumbers out there, let me know how you're getting on with your course, what your plans are, and if there's enough of us, we can support each other to succeed.