Discuss Plumber Being Unreasonable in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net

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hulahoops

Hi
im just after some advice please. I recently contacted some plumbers for quotes for a second opinion following the problems we have been living with for ages.

One plumbing company emailed back after I fully explained the problems. He was really nice, seemed genuine enough and explained that I would need an engineer with a good sense of smell who can investigate the cause and would then write out a report in which I could use to,prove to my housing of the problems. He quoted me £99 and informed to contact them when the smell was really bad.

So so the other night, I did when we had the sewage and bleach smell from bathroom. The guy said the person I emailed wasn't there and I explained what the email had informed me to do. He said he would get someone out within 90 minutes. He said I had to pay a charge of £65 call out and £95 direct to the plumber. I told him I was quoted £99 and no call out charge was given. He said if I didn't pay then I couldntn get the plumber out. I had no choice as I needed the report this week to give to my solicitor. He took payment for the 65 and said he would email the receipt.I called there emergency number just after 11 pm Friday. The plumber arrived just after 12.30am.

By by then the bleach smell had gone but the sewage smell was still coming through bath but not as strong as it was when I called them. the young man said he couldn't smell anything, apart from an incense stick which I had burning in one of the rooms with the door closed. The smell would've been when he walked past it. He didn't check or look at any of the fittings and told me this was normal as I live in a flat and when everyone's using their water, it affects me. He told me to run all the taps in the bathroom and flush the toilet as this would get rid of the smell. He told me to leave the tap running when out but I told him I couldn't as I paid for my water via a meter so every drop counts. He told me there was no solution. I explained to him I had email contact with the company and the engineer that was suppose be sent to me, was someone who would be able to detect H2S smells and write a report. He told he didn't do reports. He had a basic and plain invoice book and wrote he had no smell when he arrived and there is no water in the trap. And that we use so often. I told the plumber I wasn't happy as the smell was clearly noticeable when walking into the bathroom and that he didn't look or check anything. I told him the previous plumber had taken bath panel off and said it was wrong fitting in which he said that's not true. i told him what the other guy said in his email but he said that's the only report I would get. My son was awake still so I didn't want a scene so I paid him. He tried leaving without giving me a copy of the receipt and what he wrote, son asked for it. He also told my son to run the taps when the smells come and each time they come.

i then contacted the company, same guy previously as I wasn't happy. Not only did he quote and chase me different, he didn't provide the engineer he said he would. I still hadn't received a receipt by email for the 65. I asked for the receipt and questioned why it had turned out like this. I asked for a refund in which he refused so I asked for the company complaint procedure and informed him I would leave negative feedback. He instantly switched from being professional to a bully by threatening me and warning that he would get his legal team and take court actions against me. He said to send him prof by recorded delivery and he rambled on a bit more. He was so rude when no need for it. i told him to go ahead and take action against me.

Todday hensent an an email with another report from same plumber again saying no smell as customer says from bath in the morning. (We get the smells mornings evenings and some afternoons) he wrote he explained to customer the trap installed is a shower trap instead of bath ( I told him about that and showed him the photo when he said it was fine and not true) then he goes on that all waste pipe is connected to one stake pipe as its depending on the installation of the howl stake pipe in some scenario it will suck out, draw off the water from the waste trap that brake the seal and the smell will come out.

Is this normal? Am I not allowed to leave negative feedback? Are plumbing companies allowed to give a written quote and then charge differently despite clearly stating what I needed and would get.

thanks for for listening and hope some can give me some advice. I can't afford any more plumbers now. I'm already out of pocket and trusetd this company. I can't even begin to describe how upset I am.
 
Sometimes over flows smell,and the immediate pipe leading down to trap,if your trap is full of water,then give the pipes a good bleaching some types of bacteria can have an over whelming wiff ,I had a call a few weeks ago same trouble I cleaned all pipes and trap flushed with bleach ,the customer phoned back she said she was doing star jumps as the pong had finally gone, hope this helps,and if I told you the customers name, and factory you would be flabbergasted .
 
Charge wise l cant see why you are complaining. The guy gave you an estimate, probably with no idea that you would wait till 11.00pm on a friday night. Im afraid I wouldnt be going out at that time to smell a bathroom.

Now the other side of the coin. Sounds like you do have an issue with your wastes. Probably too shallow a seal on the bath, but I'm just guessing. The water is being sucked out of the traps. Could be poor install, maybe worth trying anti vac traps.

Good luck.
 
Steering clear of the issues you've had with your other plumber, I can give you some pointers here.

You say you live in a flat. Are you by any chance on or near the top floor? The soil pipes very often are not vented outside and in place of the open vent, an Air Admittance Valve is installed. Sometimes called a Dirgo.
These devices allow air to be drawn into the system, usually immediately after a toilet is flushed.
The tell tale sign of the Dirgo causing the issue is the time of day the smell is worse/better. Usually, 5/6pm is a bad time, and upto 10/11 at night. Through the day it's not usually as bad.

I've known AAV's to be left hanging off, causing bad smells, and I've also jetted one off many years ago, resulting in my then employer (Drain Doctor) buying a lady a bunch of flowers - more than I ever got!

Unused traps are also a common cause of smells, as someone else already said, the water in them evaporates and leaves the trap empty, resulting in sewer gas entering the property.

The bleach (or chlorine as I often hear it described) smell suggests that the drain is open to the sewer. Do you have any images you could email or other info about the actual job? The other plumber is something entirely different and you could argue that one out til the cows come home!
 
Might be cheaper and better to get some sort of air freshner

In the first thread about the smells the lady said she has tried air freshners and the smell is so bad that her little boy gags hence her frustration at the council and the HA.
 
yes we all know that basic knowledge the drain pipe leading to trap will need cleaning,if the trap is full she certainly should not be getting any smells, thats why i said if her trap is full of water try cleaning pipe above and over flow
 
sounds like martin smith!.

you called an emergency plumber out of hours, the origional plumber may not work 24hrs a day!.
after certain time ie: 9-5pm the rate goes up and most go home so it takes someone to find a plumber to get to you...especially at 11pm friday.

cover the shower trap with a plunger, tape up the overfolw to bath and basin....smell will go!?
now take one off peer day till smell comes back then you will identify source.

then call plumber 9-5pm to fix.

hope that helps.
 
sounds like martin smith!.

you called an emergency plumber out of hours, the origional plumber may not work 24hrs a day!.
after certain time ie: 9-5pm the rate goes up and most go home so it takes someone to find a plumber to get to you...especially at 11pm friday.

cover the shower trap with a plunger, tape up the overfolw to bath and basin....smell will go!?
now take one off peer day till smell comes back then you will identify source.

then call plumber 9-5pm to fix.

hope that helps.


With all due respect, I've never known Martin Smith to be rude to anyone, let alone bullying!

About 10% of my work comes through MS, overnight stuff especially that nobody else will attend. I'm fortunate in not drinking, so I'm pretty much top of his list for my area, and I've had many conversations with him in the wee small hours, although he may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, he's certainly not rude to people. He has another guy with him now (Ged) and again, he's more than polite and I've never had a crossed word with either of them.
 
^^^^^
Ive spoke with him once and on my limited experience found him to be fine.
 
No issues with the charge IMO.

He quoted you probably based on day hours, OK probably didn't explain this but I wouldn't get out of my pit any night of the week for £99.
 
With all due respect, I've never known Martin Smith to be rude to anyone, let alone bullying!

About 10% of my work comes through MS, overnight stuff especially that nobody else will attend. I'm fortunate in not drinking, so I'm pretty much top of his list for my area, and I've had many conversations with him in the wee small hours, although he may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, he's certainly not rude to people. He has another guy with him now (Ged) and again, he's more than polite and I've never had a crossed word with either of them.

could agree with you there, i was referencing it to the rates charged as they appear to be the same structure!.
i could get ratty with folk though if i knew i gave all that i should for the price. but like you say, he' a scouser and they come accross like that.lol
 
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See one or two advising fitting deeper traps, could be better to replace with waterless [Hep Traps] will stop any syphonage problems
 
Had these stuck open before now.

me too!! it was like cast like it and wouldnt close. iff some hair or something gets stuck in it for a while, it disforms them. nice slim fitting but cant see them reliable.......bet thats what she has on the basin!!hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 
Thanks for all the replies.

Yes this is to do with the smell from the bathroom croppie. I shouldn't have started a new post, sorry, I should have just added this to my first one.

I contacted this company via email on 17 Feb requesting a quote, having explained everything as best as I could, along with the problems and difficulties experienced, just like I have done on here. A few emails to and forth, having clearly stated that the smells are worse/stronger mornings/evenings, Friday to Mondays and daily during school holidays. I was emailed back, asked about my availability over the next 7 days, explained that to support my case, I would need an engineer with a good smell sense to visit when the smell was bad and detectable to investigate. and upon investigation, I would receive a report in writing that we have an escape of H2S and that this would be enough to fight my case and to use their service and gain a report, I would be looking at a total of £99 which would cover up to 1 hour of their time. I emailed back, thanked him for being helpful and stated I would be happy to use their service and would call over the next few days when the smell was bad and that is exactly what I did.

I decided to leave a review despite being warned and threatened with legal action at the weekend. I appreciate some of you think the cost I was charged was fine, yes of course its perfectly normal to charge customers more if after 5pm. However, if he had informed me that I had to pay an additional cost of £65 on top of the £99, I would've of politely thanked him and carried on trying others advice. I explained this when I phoned up but another staff member said I still had to pay for the deposit. I assumed the deposit would get refunded as I was told £99.

What a nightmare! After I left the review the phone calls and emails began again. Trying to intimidate me and Then to shamefully comment on the review by lying in that manner, is a disgrace.

I will not be made to feel scared and frightened and I haven't done anything wrong. Furthermore, despite rquesting the receipt for the depost atleast 3 times, I am still waiting. Checked my account and had £69 taken from my account.

I would be more than happy to share the emails sent to me to prove how this guy is , feel free to ask. Thanks
 
Hi Hulahoops,

If someone is so stupid to send you threatening emails...well there's not more to being stupid than doing that.

Ignore the calls, or just tell him all further contact is via email and just keep receiving the emails.
When you think you have enough to go on, go visit the police.

They may have a chat to this person and give him a warning.
 
I have to say I do not understand the logic of telling all this in public.

This is a general comment of all the posts of this nature where common sense would surely dictate to me, if I was in your position with a service that I wasnt happy with....

Id simply tell all this to trading standards or the merchant bank provider.

I just do not see mileage spilling the beans on here and what you hope to achieve by it, and how it will resolve your position.

You surely know what you need to do and that is take it up with the company and trading standards

You ask 10 different people here and you will get 10 different answers, you havent a clue who is giving the advice and it could be ranging from thick as 2 short planks to intelligent, impartial to partisan to the company's in question best buddy.
 
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I think £164 is fair enough to come out in the middle of the night. You also said that they took the deposit before the plumber attended? So I can only assume that they said that it would be £65 call out and x amount per hour or something so to me I would let that drop.

You would have to pay me £200 before I would leave the house at that time of night that's if you could get me to answer the phone.

Seems to me you have spoken to someone during the day and he has given you there normal working hours rate and not out of hours rates which can change dramatically I know I only give out normal hourly rates as my out of hours would change depending on travelling time etc.

As for sending out a person with a keen sense of smell at that time of night you will get who ever is on call or who ever answers there phone, but generally speaking most people will smell drain smells (I am a heavy smoker and still manage to smell drains and usually start gagging).

If you are not happy with what he did when he came out there and from what you said I wouldn't be happy if someone told me or one of my customers to leave a tap on I would be pretty peeved then that is something to bring up and take it through their complaints procedures if they have one.

Or probably the least stressful option is to get someone else in who is recommended to you to have a look. A half decent plumber would be able to find the problem with the smell there or not.

Maybe try and see if someone is local to you on here and they may be able to help you.
 
Try and keep it professional guys. Whatever hulahoop's reasons for calling the service were she is now asking for our professional help and advice.

Whether we agree whether it merits an out of hours call is neither here nor there but reading this and the previous thread I think the poor girl is at her wits end.

Thank you.
 
It needs seperating into two issues. The smell and the consumer issue. The consumer issue is not for this forum. The smell issue, well there are plenty of things suggested, but as a tenant you shouldnt be having this chew.
 
Try and keep it professional guys. Whatever hulahoop's reasons for calling the service were she is now asking for our professional help and advice.

Whether we agree whether it merits an out of hours call is neither here nor there but reading this and the previous thread I think the poor girl is at her wits end.

Thank you.

Perhaps so,

But keeping it profesional works both ways.....no ???
the posters threat of adding private communications to the thread will serve no end also and coupled with the posters view and opinion of being ripped off and misled, and the alleged pending threat of court action by a party may also be libelous.
(If allowing the forum could be held accountable) if the business was proved right and had wind of these potentially defamatory comments ?

I just mention this because that very thing happened with operation yewtree on the UKs most popular ducati forum when I was into them about 18 month ago.
Some pending action at court with some celebrity and some legal defence team stumbled across defamatory banter comments and they were served with a cease and desist notice or the threat of action against forum admin and poster.

Seems to be the way these days with twitter and evertthing else filtering through
 
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Damp flanel hanging over overflow , did stop drafts as a kid

Lol! True, but then it is no longer an overflow, as it is now blocked! Then they risk flooding the place, but no smell. :smile:
 
as a tenant you shouldnt be having this chew.

Personally I think the housing association has treated you badly? As a landlord, they should listen to your concerns and address them or try to address them. For some flats, a Ventilated Stack would have prevented such a ''problem''
 
Perhaps so,

But keeping it profesional works both ways.....no ???
the posters threat of adding private communications to the thread will serve no end also and coupled with the posters view and opinion of being ripped off and misled, and the alleged pending threat of court action by a party may also be libelous.
(If allowing the forum could be held accountable) if the business was proved right and had wind of these potentially defamatory comments ?

I just mention this because that very thing happened with operation yewtree on the UKs most popular ducati forum when I was into them about 18 month ago.
Some pending action at court with some celebrity and some legal defence team stumbled across defamatory banter comments and they were served with a cease and desist notice or the threat of action against forum admin and poster.

Seems to be the way these days with twitter and evertthing else filtering through

Fair point well made Phil
 
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