Old cookers and gas safe certificates

[Ric2013]

A couple of years ago, my mother moved house and paid an RGI to move her existing ca. 1981 Solaire New World cooker into her new house (there was already a gas connexion and cooker point). Seeing as this cooker seems likely to outlive my MUCH newer cooker, I can't say I blame her.

Now she is looking at renting out her house, she is being told by the same RGI that while he's happy that the cooker is safe and okay, he's not happy giving it a Landlord's certificate. This, to me, makes no sense at all, but the old dear 'hasn't got round' to asking him why

It's not a big problem - she'll buy another cooker (but she's offered me her old one and I'm slightly keen). What I'm trying to work out is what corners her RGI has cut, if any...

Some guesses are as follows:

1. That moving a cooker into a different building counts as a "new" install and that therefore the cooker should not, strictly speaking, have been installed if it was not up to current standards. Given that the RGI knows the cooker has been moved, he cannot pass it on a certificate.

2. Something to do with the clearances to wall-hung shelves above the cooker - simple and easy solution would be to remove the shelves from the wall. God only knows why he said nothing at the time.

3. (Not my idea). That the fact that the hobs do not have flame-failure devices, and the oven does not have a flame failure device in the modern sense (it knocks the oven gas down to a minimum if the thermocouple senses cold, but won't turn the gas off entirely - this is the original design, not a fault), means that while the cooker is not faulty, it does not meet stricter requirements for letting. This idea sounds like rubbish to me, because the house is not a flat or HMO and so my understanding is the gas installation is either "safe" (i.e it can be certified as safe) or it isn't (i.e. it is ID or AR). Had a look on Gas Safe website, but found nothing to support this view.

4. The cooker is faulty, but it is 'relatively' safe, so the RGI turned a blind eye to it until he had to put his name to its safety :S

5. (My mother's idea) That the cooker is old and therefore could develop a fault during the course of a year (like any car going in for MOT, I pointed out).

Any ideas would be received with gratitude? I'm trying to work out what her RGI is playing at (particularly as I need a gas run replacing at my own house and am starting to be put off this guy).

 

[joni os]

When the missus puts up a shelf I neither condemn it nor wish to certify it. The judgement that your mother will be safe with a 1981 cooker with which she is familiar and has taken care of, has proved correct. His experience of how cookers are abused in rented property may well explain his reluctance. Don't be put off by his caution, give him a chance to explain.

 

[Ric2013]

I'm all for a pragmatic approach. I just want to hear his explanation - but then I'm not the customer, and unless dear mater 'gets around' to asking him, I'll never know.

The reason I'm on point of law mode here is mostly just because I'm a nosy bugger ('I have an enquiring mind').

Cheers. R

 

[AWheating]

if it was safe to install its safe to pass a landlords cert, only reason i can see is he installed it incorrectly/ not to the british standards and does not want to sign his name to it.

still cant see why not tho if its safe and passes all required checks.

 

[Simon F]

he might have it wrong about rented property requirements
there was an article in the gas safe magazine recently covering this.

 

[Ric2013]

he might have it wrong about rented property requirements
there was an article in the gas safe magazine recently covering this.

Is this article available to view online anywhere to your knowledge? Reason I ask is it's good to understand the requirements properly and I keep hearing conflicting stories.

 

[Ric2013]

if it was safe to install its safe to pass a landlords cert

That was my thought.

 

[newcastle phill]

Should be fine. Very few checks to do comparatively so compared to more complicated appliances.

 

[ed209]

My advise would to be rent it without the cooker as your mother will be responsible for repair or replacement if it goes wrong!

 

[billybob150811]

I agree with the gas fitter your mum understands the cooker so moving house is neither here nor there but renting it out it might be prudent to have instructions on how to use

 

[ed209]

As regards gas cert its either safe or its not

 

[Simon F]

Is this article available to view online anywhere to your knowledge? Reason I ask is it's good to understand the requirements properly and I keep hearing conflicting stories.

Available on line by login in to Gas Safe. Just need to be registered for that!
it was really as a pointer for the gas fitter

 

[Ric2013]

So the consensus seems to be that the cooker, if all the safety features as designed by the manufacturer work, the cooker should be able to pass a so-called landlord's check and that the criteria for a Gas Installation Safety Certificate do not change if it is a let property.

Great then. So assuming the gas installer is just being advisory (I'll find out), I'll take it off her hands: little things are starting to go wrong with my own gas cooker (Stoves Newhome - by comparison with the Solaire it's a lump of junk). Apparently she has a tenant lined up - the neighbour's daughter (trouble ahead if you ask me, but no one has asked me) who prefers electric anyway so she's going to have an electric cooker fitted.

 

[tamz]

Absolutely no reason not to pass a well maintained and looked after gas cooker no matter how old it is. It works in exactly the same way as an other cooker.
Even if it was one of the old new worlds that had the gas poker to light the grill it wouldn't matter. It is either working as it was designed to do or not.

Btw if she's renting to someones daughter and she's anything like most of the young team these days the cooker will never be used. Its either microwave or ring a takeaway.

 

[newcastle phill]

Believe it or not my daughter at uni managed to empty a house by putting a ready made meal in for 200 mins instead of 20.
Apparently the plastic reacting was like mustard gas

 

[tamz]

Hahaha. And these are supposed to be the clever generation lol
Fk me what will the next lot be like
I'm actually still laughing at that one lol

 

[Ric2013]

Yeah well, there are plumbers who have BAs in English Literature. After all, a lot of people need to make a lot of money out of students so everyone needs to go to university, even if it isn't in their interest.

Did I tell you a friend's brother (he was 17) was left alone at home by his parents and he called an electrician out because a lightbulb had blown and he didn't know how to change it? At least he had the initiative to get it sorted, I suppose.

 

[newcastle phill]

To be frank I have 3 kids of worrying age. 15 16 and 19.
They are all ****ing useless.
Scares the **** out of me these ****ers are the future.
Cant even flush a toilet

 

[tamz]

Tbh Phil my ma slapped me in the 60's for not flushing the toilet or pyshing on the floor but i catch yer drift

 

[Ric2013]

I think that's probably why I'm a plumber - we had no money to get everything done and my so we got on with it. Eventually I discovered it was better if I did this sort of thing than let my mother do this sort of thing

('I put my fingers behind the fuse cartridge to get better grip'.
'Well, you could at least have switched the consumer unit mains switch off first if you were going to wrap your fingers around the pins')

In fairness, I did learn how to change spark plugs, oil, and contact breaker points from her.

Which is why I'm surprisingly good at getting anything ancient and obsolete working again. Really useful when you're doing repairs to get new custom.

 

[Dotty]

Moved off open forum.

 

[Ric2013]

Hi sorry for delayed update - I thought this had been moved to the professional gas forum, not the Arms...

Anyway, the update is that incredibly my mother has got in touch with the RGI and he has replied to the effect that, while, yes there is a clearance issue and she needs to move the shelves in any case, he isn't happy putting his name to a Gas Safety Certificate on that cooker (without failsafe devices) knowing that the house is going to be let. Seeing as the meter is a of the prepayment type, I can't really say I blame him.