Is it a bad time to train to be a Plumber?

[zeke4]

Hi, first thanks for reading.

I'm 26 and looking for a trade, like a lot of people I think Plumbers are in such demand they can choose their own hours and write their own cheques but I've been reading a lot of comments (some on this site) about an over saturation in the market going back to 2008 and that Plumbers were last in short supply in 2004.

Id be looking to train through one of the new(ish) style home study/practical courses due to my age/financial commitments.

Also, is it true that this route is a waste of time and you cannot just get yourself a van and go self employed with these courses as I have imagined?

Any comments would be welcome.

 

[Guest123]

Also, is it true that this route is a waste of time and you cannot just get yourself a van and go self employed with these courses as I have imagined?

Yes. It takes years to get established and even if you do, it can take even more years to make a living.

Don't believe the false promises made by these training courses, they are misleading and should be banned for false advertising.

 

[jase158]

agree with above, however it is better to be doing something then nothing and its the same no matter what you want to do, you need to have an apprenticeship for anything, electrical, plastering, hairdressing, i.e.

The only other option is to go college get an o level, get a degree and spend thousands on going to UNI.

If i was you

1. Sit down and decide what sort of person you are, would you prefer to be sat in an office all day or hands on tools every day
2. then if you decide hands on, decide what you want to do, are you a mathematically challenged person? if so, plastering or tiling or painting would be easier, if you are competent in maths then plumbing or electrical
3. what do you want to achieve in life, is it to be your own boss, run a business or is it to be in a steady job, ticking along, getting promoted becoming manager and eventually boss
4. decide what you want to do, if its plumbing or electrical or anything else

If you still want to be a plumber or electrician, remember the Fast track courses are just that "course" they do not teach you tricks of the trade, they do not make you competent, they simply give you the basic knowledge of doing the job, you will then need to work with somebody (or go self employed and take a chance on flooding somebodys house or blowing things up) it will take 5 years before you are fully qualified and competent in most peoples eyes.

It will be hard work whichever route you take, if apprenticeship you will only get £100 a week, if self employed you will barely get that first few years.

Nothing is easy, especially in plumbing.

 

[Simon F]

Hello Zeke4,:welcome:
If you really want to do anything and have the determination then in the long run it will work out.

but you only need to look how many posts come up regularly on the forum from people who have already studied to whatever level, be it through a fast track course or at college for 2 or 4 years. offering to work for nothing to get experience, you would think that they would be inundated with calls of work. The reality is quite different.

 

[Helpfulplumber]

I re trained aged 35 with a big mortgage etc.. I did a fast trak course which was rubbish but I went for small jobs Taps,leaking wastes the sort of stuff no else wants. Its a hard market place but 4 years in I am getting more and more repeat work. I am now doing my gas safe but you need to believe in yourself and Have something else to fall back on when times are hard. Dont take the quick route to gas it will be to much, take your time build your knowledge and 5 years times you will make a decent living. Good luck

 

[tamz]

like a lot of people I think Plumbers are in such demand they can choose their own hours and write their own cheques

Don't believe all you read in the papers or gov propaganda. What does some halfwit wearing a suit, sitting behind a desk know about the realities of plumbing other than he can't get one NOW because believe it or not we plan 90% of our work, or we used to. The propaganda must have worked because there are now plenty plumbers sitting watching Jeremy Kyle hoping the phone rings

but I've been reading a lot of comments (some on this site) about an over saturation in the market going back to 2008 and that Plumbers were last in short supply in 2004.

2004 would be about right. Things were booming in the construction industry, everyone was spending money they didn't have and the gates had been opened to the Poles and others who were welcomed with open arms to fill the void left by the qualified guys working flat out.
Everyone with a half brain except the politicians could see that was never going to last (well they probably could but didn't dare too change things) and by 2008 the river Styx burst its banks and the ferryman demanded payment.
The bubble burst big time. Look up plumbing jobs on the job centre website and stare in awe at the wage rates being offered. Free market economy and supply and demand dictates the rates being offered! Taking a paper round would pay better than some of those.

Id be looking to train through one of the new(ish) style home study/practical courses due to my age/financial commitments.

Loads of experience to be gained doing that. How much are you planning on paying for this if i'm not being too intrusive?

Also, is it true that this route is a waste of time and you cannot just get yourself a van and go self employed with these courses as I have imagined?

Well what do you think? Really? Would being good at Call of Duty make you a soldier if i gave you a real gun?

 

[Keith Charles]

I did a C&G/NVQ level 1-2 course and started it in September. The course was gov funded so i didn't have to pay anything, i only have one assessment left before i'm qualified. Each assessment you do you have to write a detailed description of the task. Also you have to learn maths, that's how to work out circumferences, pi, radius and intensity of water pressure etc and scientific principles, a lot of the students on my course came unstuck on plumbing principles(the maths/science side) So if you don't like writing or maths then this is not for you. There are twelve exam subjects in total that you have to pass before you do any practical lessons. I can't understand how any training centre's can pass people in two months, so i would give any of these courses a wide berth. As for gaining work experience i think you have to be prepared to work for free to gain experience and then when you've passed and qualified you may first have to work as a plumbers mate. also think about doing level 3 and gas after you've qualified because being gas safe registered seems to be the best option in having a successful and lasting career in this trade.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

There has never been a worse time to be a plumber.

Working class jobs without a degree will get you minimum wage. Government have turned a blind eye to the plumbing industry, because colleges are making £millions and creating growth, jobs and 'mythical' futures for people [the working class have not caught on to this wheeze yet].

Tutors, career guidance and course vendors will say that there is a demand, or a skill shortage - they are not telling lies - but, there is always a skill shortage, because the government say "skills = growth". Hence, we can never have enough growth, so we can never have enough skills. So there we have the meaning of the skills shortage, and it does not mean there is a demand for work, it just creates statistics for economic theories like 'human capital' - see the Wolf Review 2011 for more on this. Wolf pointed out that there is already an oversupply of labour with intermediate qualifications NVQ3/4 in the UK.

There are other ways the media use 'skill shortages' such as reporting that youngsters cannot come into the trade anymore, because of the dearth of qualified workers looking for jobs, and willing to work for near minimum wage. Thus, the headlines of 'young people not entering trade' because of lack of opportunity - next headline - not enough young people coming into plumbing!

If you are going to pay to learn something, then get a degree. Although you have to pay back the loan, a degree has a 'lifetime currency' so it will always help on your cv to get jobs anywhere in the world. Note: vocational quals have dubious currency - you will have to re-sit every 5 years and qualifications up to NVQ level 2 have no economic value at all (Wolf Review 2011). Contact the workers education association for help with getting onto a degree pathway.

If you get an 'employed' apprenticeship with an employer, it is different, and your vocational qualifications suddenly become valuable at level 3 and above. Without the apprenticeship, you are getting something that will not be recognised as a qualification [technical certificates done in 12 weeks, a year, or two years are not identified as having any value, according to employers].

During my 30 year career as a plumber, my qualifications have meant nothing. They do not get me more work, nor do the inform the customer that I am capable, or offer a better service than the other guy, who did six weeks. Hence, no point in getting a qual that people just don't give a damn about.

Finally, imagine being a job you love and doing the job to the best of your ability - you use the best materials, and work to high standards. Then imagine competing against and being undercut by a continual supply of cheap labour from europe, or from operatives from six week training courses who want to work for free. Do you want to get to the top of your game, for this to happen? In addition, if there are no barriers to entry, e.g. no experience needed, then anyone, at anytime can set up in business and make things difficult for your business.

Consider my advice and go for the degree at all costs, and avoid anything with 'vocational' in it.

 

[Nostrum]

If you want a trade, i'd suggest something like a chippy (not with the fish, the wood)

It seems to go un noticed as it doesn't have the glitzy price tag associated to it. Currently jobs around my way for carpenters/joiners are still £12-14 per hr.

Plumbers seem worst hit, followed by electricians but the other trades seem to be OK, it's quiet for everyone don't get me wrong, but you don't seem to have hundreds queued up to become a chippy with a £50k+ salary tag attached.

 

[WaterTight]

It's actually all about what you need. If you need to pay a mortgage, send your kids to school and keep the wife in her fineries you'd be mental to try this route. If, like me, you want something that pays quite a bit better than minimum wage and has hours that need not place a big drain on your time and are prepared to wait 4 or 5 years to gain even that much then I'd say go for it. Unless you live in my town in which case don't.

 

[BROOKLANDS]

I started my own plumbing business just over 3 years ago when i left the military, it was hard to start with but now i have a good reputation with in my area. i started out with small job tap WC fitting etc and now have moved on to all aspects of plumbing, the work is out there. i would say think about it and what you would like to earn from it.i was lucky as i started my training C&Gs in the military about 4 years before leaving! Its hard to start with but well worth it.

 

[lambchop]

Looking at it from a sub-contracting point of view not private domestic market. When going for site work (cold calling as your not connected to somebody in the trade) Qualifications do count but only as a foot in the door. You will get a job in the morning through an agency but if you are not up to standard you will be out of work before lunchtime. You will be thrown in with some experienced tradesmen that may not know your trade but know enough if your c*ap and the foreman will more likely have 25+ years experience and has seen it all. So dont lie on your CV and try and bs. So many companies have cut there workforce to the bone and will go to an agency to temp plug the gaps, so there is a slim oppurtunity to get work and dont expect the lads to be thrilled to see you when you turn up. I know a lad (26) that got on site through being a labourer and got a chippy apprenticeship because he grafted, kept his head down and was keen to learn.

 

[Avatar]

why don't you do some research and train in a field that really is in demand!

plumbing was in demand before thousands of new trainees flooded the market, and now there are too many guys fighting over the same jobs. How many times I get people trying to get bargain prices on the smallest of jobs. Then you hear that 'someone' had quoted to fit that washing machine for £20, apparently!

Believe me don't bother - don't get me wrong I do love plumbing. However there is not enough work so even I am looking to move out of the trade.

Plus no one tells you how stressful it is running your own business and dealing with irate customers, getting stung for money and doing your own accounts - right guys?!!!

The grass always looks greener from further away - and then you realise it is covered with the same crap you find everywhere . . .

 

[Rob Sale]

Hi, first thanks for reading.

I'm 26 and looking for a trade, like a lot of people I think Plumbers are in such demand they can choose their own hours and write their own cheques but I've been reading a lot of comments (some on this site) about an over saturation in the market going back to 2008 and that Plumbers were last in short supply in 2004.

Id be looking to train through one of the new(ish) style home study/practical courses due to my age/financial commitments.

Also, is it true that this route is a waste of time and you cannot just get yourself a van and go self employed with these courses as I have imagined?

Any comments would be welcome.

Don't pay for it, I did not I went to a local college, but just cause you are 26 does not mean you cannot get an apprenticeship, Likes of SSE Scottish and southern electric take on apprentices your age. I'm 38 and just passed my CCN1 last week and doing the appliance acs qualifications over the next 2 days.

experienced guys are struggling to a decent wage, there has been a wage fall over the past five years. it beats min wage but you won't be earning 20 quid an hour, more like £8-£12.

Before you go anywhere and pay for it. go to a college that does this speak to a lecturer. Then go ring up some employers and ask to do work experience/placement to see if it is you before spending mega wonga. Try apprenticeships first.

 

[PowerFlusher2]

If I had my time over (I'm retired with lots of 20/20 hindsight) and was 26 years of age I would become a politician. Developed into the best job on the planet. Not a single politician has been binned nor lost any money over the almighty political disasters causing our current dire national economic position. If you can't be a politician, be a banker!

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Just an update on this.

New research data into demand for plumbing/electrical jobs has been released.

Scroll through the section on building engineering services, for your area, and you can assess the number of vacancies for plumbing/electrical, compared to the number of people doing courses.

http://www.local.gov.uk/c/document_...bfd-dd2b-4513-ac22-8998ebbdc0a1&groupId=10171

The link is from an article (below) which suggests that skills shortages in particular areas such as plumbing, may be regional. Hence in some areas there is an over-supply and in others not so, according to the data.

Media releases | Local Government Association

Sample example:

	All ages	16 to 18-year-olds
Occupation / sector	Vacancies	FE and skills achievements	Vacancies per skills achievement	FE and skills achievements	Vacancies per skills achievement
Automotive industries	89,017	36,800	2.4	24,200	3.7
Building services engineering (electrotechnical, plumbing etc)	71,789	39,740	1.8	10,510	6.8
Construction	273,969	123,370	2.2	43,980	6.2

Hence, there are, according to the data, more jobs, than there are people doing the courses - however, one must consider those qualified people from previous years, and those who have been laid-off, also looking for work.

 

[jtsplumbing]

Well according to this list (if i am reading it right) we in the south west have more vacancies than London ! who puts all these rubbish figures togeather ? More to the point how much do they get paid for doing it ?? More than we earn thats for sure !!

 

[Deleted member 25704]

Well according to this list (if i am reading it right) we in the south west have more vacancies than London ! who puts all these rubbish figures togeather ? More to the point how much do they get paid for doing it ?? More than we earn thats for sure !!

I think you make a fair comment.

But, statistics on plumbing training have not been easily available over the last decade - or the stats available have been less than complete or awarding bodies like City and Guilds stopped publishing their annual achievment lists - the last one in 2008 saw 48,000 doing technical certificates in plumbing that year (silence from then-on).

This list is less than complete, but it makes a mockery of sector skills statistics in their SQS sector needs analysis (summitskills 2010), which predicted that around 3,000 plumbers would be needed annually between 2005 and 2010.

The document lists 39,740 skills achievements for plumbing and electrical, which still suggests an over-supply. In addition, we don't have the statistics for private providers or for ***mulative affects of 'over-supply' in previous years (those still looking for work).

But, for those thinking of entering plumbing, it gives a quick idea, of what vacancies have been advertised.

And...contrary to my assertion that there is an oversupply in the plumbing industry, there could be pockets of opportunity, according to the research published.

 

[mountainman]

It's always a good time to train to be a tradesman.
It's just a carp time for getting employment as one!

 

[stokecity]

anyone can buy a van and write plumber on it and theres no laws to stop them and from working as a plumber without qualifications and as clanger said level 2 isnt really worth much and it will take you 5-6 years get ur level 3 if u can find employment, if i was in your situation i would be looking at goin straight for my gas

 

[mountainman]

anyone can buy a van and write plumber on it and theres no laws to stop them and from working as a plumber without qualifications and as clanger said level 2 isnt really worth much and it will take you 5-6 years get ur level 3 if u can find employment, if i was in your situation i would be looking at goin straight for my gas

I wouldn't.
Too expensive.
Too dangerous.
Too much knowledge and experience needed to be effective.
And best of all.
There's no money in it.

 

[stokecity]

I wouldn't.
Too expensive.
Too dangerous.
Too much knowledge and experience needed to be effective.
And best of all.
There's no money in it.

at the age of 26 you will have to pay full price for any trade you want to learn, the level 2 tech cert at my local college around £2000 for 2 year course. gas isnt dangerous if your competent, which a qualification willl make you

 

[Top Cat]

Surely if you can push 2 bits of pipe together into a push fit connector you are a fully qualified plumber?

 

[tamz]

Aye but the trick is getting it to look good (an impossibility)

The plastic plumbers are just above pat testers on your scale of tradesmen.

 

[Top Cat]

Aye but the trick is getting it to look good (an impossibility)

The plastic plumbers are just above pat testers on your scale of tradesmen.

A serious question now! how many, as a percentage use copper pipe on a job? I am old school and remember plumbers bringing 10 pipes all of different sizes down to a boiler room with sets sweeping beautifully, each pipe exactly the same distance from the other. Have not seen that beautiful attention to detail for a long time. I know you can say the same for electricians so i am not having a go at you. Would just like to know if it is only "old school" that still do it or do new boys still have a pride in this sort of work?

 

[jase158]

yes, I started 3-4 years ago and yes copper everytime, unless I havent got a fitting and it wont be seen, then I put a push fit fitting in. I would say 50% of new and old Plumbers use copper and 50% use plastic. there is quite a few threads on here about it

 

[dontknowitall]

Most of us regular posters are copper based - I'm not just talking about the older/more experienced plumbers.

We do use plastic but not often. As for really good looking pipework it's like most of the trades; where the customer is happy to pay extra for that attention to detail they'll get it but so often the price doesn't cover the extra time involved. I'm not saying we botch things, but for many jobs, straight enough is good enough.

As an aside note, System3 is a great supporter of flexible tap connectors - rest of us despise these items but are forced to use them on occasion.

 

[nickelarsed]

Well I came into plumbing at 30. Paid for a course, did level two and three. Been going about three years now. Trust me it is hard work. Had to work for free for a while to get experience. then had to work for awful money for a while. You can still make good money if you can find your own customers and keep them happy, the big problem is getting enough of them. That takes years. The better money is in gas but getting gas experience is a nightmare. I've still only got about half my required hours after all this time.
I'm contracting on site now just because I need a regular wage to pay off everything I spent. Really the whole thing has been a crap load of stress.
But thing is I quite enjoy it. And if I'm honest I don't regret starting it despite all the hassle and money worries. I suppose as someone said above it depends what kind of person you are. I find plumbing satisfying work, and I basically can just get on and do my job which I enjoy. In the end I reckon the money will get better, but then I'm an optimist. I do know some plumbers round here are still making the cash, so in my head it can be done.
My advice is to try and find someone to work with as a mate/ labourer BEFORE you shell out for a course. It will give you an idea of whether it's right for you. And if you can't find anyone think about this, you are definitely going to need to work with someone after the course because you just wont be ready to go on your own. So if you can't find anyone after you have spent the cash, how much worse will you feel then?

 

[Archy Styrigg]

A serious question now! how many, as a percentage use copper pipe on a job? I am old school and remember plumbers bringing 10 pipes all of different sizes down to a boiler room with sets sweeping beautifully, each pipe exactly the same distance from the other. Have not seen that beautiful attention to detail for a long time. I know you can say the same for electricians so i am not having a go at you. Would just like to know if it is only "old school" that still do it or do new boys still have a pride in this sort of work?

Oooo...know what you mean!
Last time I was on the ships, there were 10,15 maybe 20 odd small bore Cu tubing (in parallel) beautifully swept around the engine room etc. Not a kink in sight. Bit like MICC I suppose.

 

[Archy Styrigg]

Serious answer...
Any of you guys considered doing Industrial/Instrument pipework?
Last job I was on, this German lad reworked a pump control panel from plastic tubing to copper.
Work of frigging art when he'd finished, wish I'd taken some pictures.


Forgot, good money to had and travel the world for free.

 

[tamz]

A serious question now! how many, as a percentage use copper pipe on a job? I am old school and remember plumbers bringing 10 pipes all of different sizes down to a boiler room with sets sweeping beautifully, each pipe exactly the same distance from the other. Have not seen that beautiful attention to detail for a long time. I know you can say the same for electricians so i am not having a go at you. Would just like to know if it is only "old school" that still do it or do new boys still have a pride in this sort of work?

I should invite you to one of my jobs then. I still do it and pass the skills and pride in what they can do to my apprentices but i've got a (hard built) market where they will pay for quality. There are a few of us left who take a pride in what we do but like all trades we are a dying breed.
It is all down to money and lack of skills and most people don't care what is fitted as long as it works. Most customers, especially the younger generation wouldn't know quality workmanship if it bit them on the rse and tradesmen mainly want in and out.

A bit like when was the last time i saw a spark do a house in conduit ....not in the past 20 years at least. I knew a few sparks who could shame most plumbers with a bender.

Quality work is expensive.

 

[tamz]

Serious answer...
Any of you guys considered doing Industrial/Instrument pipework?

Never thought about it.

 

[Avatar]

I agree quality work is not cheap - or quick!

Having said that the cost to make new pipe runs under the floor in copper/soldered will almost be 10 times more expensive than doing it in John Guest - which has a 5 year guarnentee by the way!

I know many time served plumbers who will do this, and it is not just newbees 'bodge jobbing' about.

How much more labour is it to solder runs of copper in - where no one will see its beauty?!?

OK it may be different on a new build where you have easy access whilst doing the 1st fix. In an old house however, the job is much more problematic . . .

Bottom line is - I have to compete with many cowboy offering over the top prices. I am pricey enough as it is in comparison. If I did everything I did in copper i would price myself out of the market!!!!!

Food for thought . . .

 

[Ivor Bates]

The one thing I love about the plumbing industry is the snobbery it breeds and having been in the industry for over 30 years nothing seems to have changed, even when I got into this trade you still people proffessing to be "I'm old school" and I do it this way... The plumbing industry evolves and changes over time new materials come onto the market you just need to keep up to date and move with the times, being "old school" can and does give you bad working habbits, it certainly dosen't make you any better than being a newly trained plumber, yes you may have more experience but that is where the "I'm better than you at plumbing" ends. Otherwise if old school plumbing was so much better than modern day plumbing we'd all still be running lead pipe work everywhere. I tend to laugh when someone say's I'm old school it generally means their be retiring soon......

 

[WHPES]

If you are the practical sort and have attention to accuracy have you considered training as a joiner? There's a lot more work available in this field for GOOD QUALITY joiners (there's a lot of bodgers around but I struggle getting a good joiner). Plumbing is quiet but my joiner always seems busy.