Is it a bad time to train to be a Plumber?

[WHPES]

Having said that the cost to make new pipe runs under the floor in copper/soldered will almost be 10 times more expensive than doing it in John Guest - which has a 5 year guarnentee by the way!

Polyplumb has a 25 year guarantee. Would never use JG personally as it's not as robust.

 

[Top Cat]

The one thing I love about the plumbing industry is the snobbery it breeds and having been in the industry for over 30 years nothing seems to have changed, even when I got into this trade you still people proffessing to be "I'm old school" and I do it this way... The plumbing industry evolves and changes over time new materials come onto the market you just need to keep up to date and move with the times, being "old school" can and does give you bad working habbits, it certainly dosen't make you any better than being a newly trained plumber, yes you may have more experience but that is where the "I'm better than you at plumbing" ends. Otherwise if old school plumbing was so much better than modern day plumbing we'd all still be running lead pipe work everywhere. I tend to laugh when someone say's I'm old school it generally means their be retiring soon......

It's no good giving a catty comment to another cat!:34:

 

[Avatar]

The one thing I love about the plumbing industry is the snobbery it breeds and having been in the industry for over 30 years nothing seems to have changed, even when I got into this trade you still people proffessing to be "I'm old school" and I do it this way... The plumbing industry evolves and changes over time new materials come onto the market you just need to keep up to date and move with the times, being "old school" can and does give you bad working habbits, it certainly dosen't make you any better than being a newly trained plumber, yes you may have more experience but that is where the "I'm better than you at plumbing" ends. Otherwise if old school plumbing was so much better than modern day plumbing we'd all still be running lead pipe work everywhere. I tend to laugh when someone say's I'm old school it generally means their be retiring soon......

this is right on the money!

Jesus, are we plumbers or peers of the realm? Where is the unity? This forum is much more forgiving than others I have been on (Screwfix!) but when I hear things like 'I hate tap flexis' and 'everyone who install plastic is a cowboy' then it does make me wonder . . .

Lead pipework is crap. We advance technology to improve things and the world around us.

There are too many people stuck in the past these days - and plumbers seem to be no exception to this rule!

 

[tamz]

My preference for fitting copper is just that, my preference because imo it is a better finished job. It has nothing to do with evolving technologies.
I use plastics from time to time and sometimes there is no option but to use it e.g. underfloor heating, cabling on new builds or drops inside walls) but but that doesn't make it better, just the best or only practicable choice for the job.
MLC is different. I have used that many times and like it. The biggest problem with plastic is it is rarely fitted properly and 90% of it looks like a dog pyshin in the snow.
It is a bit like saying i prefer blondes but a brunette is better than a wa nk.
Whatever anyone else fits or how they fit it is up to them. I don't need to look at it.

 

[Guest123]

and flexies are ****e.

 

[Guest123]

All you newbies who complain about "Old Skool" soon wet your pants when you come across something like an old cast iron main, or something else from way back then and then you've got a damn cheek to come on here asking us for advice on how to fix it.

By the way plastic plumbing is NOT new, I used the original Acorn system back in the early 1980's and even that was as as cack as the stuff out now.

Anyone can stick 2 ends together into a push fit, not everyone can properly solder a pipe, lead burn lead and copper to lead, rope and lead run cast iron joints, in fact many of the things that HAVE to be done on a Grade A Historic Building. No plastic or flexies allowed there, just a feeling of pride and achievement in being able to do a skilled job.

 

[tamz]

All you newbies who complain about "Old Skool" soon wet your pants when you come across something like an old cast iron main, or something else from way back then and then you've got a damn cheek to come on here asking us for advice on how to fix it.

What kind of philmac can i get to join onto a 2" asbestos main:shocked3: or should i ring the water board and demand it is all replaced

 

[Guest123]

I came across an old original copper to lead bath trap yesterday. All made up in situ and a real work of art. Sadly these skills are lost now and I respect that progress changes the way we do things, but I couldn't help feeling that the old trap had lasted for 60 odd years and would easily have kept going. Felt a bit guilty about slapping a Mcalpine bath trap on the new bath!

 

[Top Cat]

I thought the definition of a plumber was a worker of lead? Maybe now the old Greek word is "plasticato"

 

[tamz]

I thought the definition of a plumber was a worker of lead?

Still decent money in that part of the trade if you like sitting on a roof in a T shirt in the snow :lol:

 

[legal22]

re-trained myself about 6 years ago at 38 had construction experience and was nt daft. I love my job but it cost me a fortune to get where I am and am still paying for it . If I knew what I now know , sorry but i would nt do it again

 

[Avatar]

I thought it was standard practice to remove as much lead as possible while we work!?!

 

[Avatar]

System - I don't mean to be rude but reading between your words it seems your real issue seems to be that the job has become less skilled to the point that almost anyone can do it these days?

I understand that you may resent the fact that your trade has been de-skilled and loads of new people are jumping on the bandwagon.

However it is definitely my experience that anyone who thinks plumbing is easy - even using push fit pipework - is in for a nasty shock . . . . .

I dont think that push fit pipe is much harder to fit than compression though - it is just knowing exactly how to do the joint.

 

[Ivor Bates]

Just remember the reason CORGI came about into being, was because 'Old school' working practices were bad.... The same reason why ACOPS and subsequently ACS came about. Even though I qualified back in the late 80s I don't like to class myself as being 'old school' as it kind of makes me feel like an old codger, I have to say I love flexis, in fact I love anything that makes my working life that little bit easier. I think both old and new plumbers can learn new skills from each other rather than trying to have a oneupmanship over the other. You'll never know it all no matter how long you are in the industry, but you might think you do.....

 

[Avatar]

Just remember the reason CORGI came about into being, was because 'Old school' working practices were bad.... The same reason why ACOPS and subsequently ACS came about. Even though I qualified back in the late 80s I don't like to class myself as being 'old school' as it kind of makes me feel like an old codger, I have to say I love flexis, in fact I love anything that makes my working life that little bit easier. I think both old and new plumbers can learn new skills from each other rather than trying to have a oneupmanship over the other. You'll never know it all no matter how long you are in the industry, but you might think you do.....

I could not have said it better myself!

Lets take the best of everything and use it together.

Plus - lets be tolerant enough to let other people do things differently - without condemning them please!!!!

 

[Guest123]

System - I don't mean to be rude but reading between your words it seems your real issue seems to be that the job has become less skilled to the point that almost anyone can do it these days?

Almost anyone with reasonable diy skills can attempt plumbing these days, without having any experience of copper pipe, soldering and with a little knowledge rand a "How To" guide from B&Q many homeowners are tackling jobs that they would have automatically called a plumber in to do for them a few years back.

Whether or not a diy/novice person makes a pigs ear of it, with the advent of plastic and flexies etc, they will attempt it first before even considering getting a pro in to do it.

In my opinion botched jobs by novices using plastic is what gives it a bad name. Used properly and in the correct conditions, it's ok.
It's biggest downfall is that it's subject to rodent attack and the damage it causes. Rodents are present in most households at some time or another and you'd hardly even know they're there. Even in the cleanest of houses, mice will be there. That's one of the reasons I hesitate in installing plastic under a new bath. I've seen many times the damage caused by mice eating through pipes.

Compression is a lot more difficult for a novice than pushfit mate. Even in the hands of a pro, pushfit is far easier to assemble.

And I do welcome progress and new materials and systems, wetrooms being a good example, but in my opinion, not all progress is good.

As for lead, a lead roof properly installed will easily outlast ANY modern material.

 

[Ivor Bates]

Yep, I'm forever changing half eaten washing machine, dishwasher and shower pump hoses cos of all them hungry mice.....hahaha

 

[tamz]

Rubber tastes like shyt to mice!

 

[RichardLopez]

I agree with one of the comments above concerning having s think about your aptitudes and commitment and considering an apprenticeship. I run an apprenticeship site where I advise young trainee plumbers to get the best qualifications they can and really take advantage of the apprenticeship scheme as the best way to get started. College courses will not give you the extended skills and experience and workplace competence that an apprenticeship will. Make a serious decision and look to the long term, good luck hope this helps.

 

[jase158]

I find being on this forum can sometimes get you in the mood that everybody is doing it themselves these days, had 2 calls last week,

"i have tried to fix my toilet but failed and now need a plumber"

and one this week, let people try and good on them for failing and giving me the work.

To all those tr who are training up and becoming plumbers, good on them for doing something with their lives and as for me, I'm making a living for myself, so good on me.

Life goes on.

 

[Noxer]

I dont mind people doing a apprenticeship. But it just confuses me how people become gas safe... but dont actually have no experience on the tools... how are they getting signed off?

 

[jase158]

fast track, they pay people to take them with them and sign them off, there are people out there making money from the training centres.
I got offered all the onsite experience for gas for an extra £1000.