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Great to fill your scrap bag though lol this is a great place to exchange or borrow a vast aray of knowledge hope you stick around ...regards TurnpinHiya turnpin am based in the northwest live in liverpool but work all over the uk am currently working on the manchester city football academy we've finished the under pitch heating and rain water harversting, and started the energy centre last week its the first time ive seen 4" copper pipe no use for a pipebender on that job