Gas valve filter repeatedly blocked by thin silver debris

[octopub]

12 months ago National Grid did some work by digging up my drive to put in a wider supply pipe from the mains and my gas meter. This was because an annual service on my boiler revealed low working pressure.
Ever since then my boiler keeps cutting out & requires several resets to get it back on until the point it won’t start at all & I have to call out the engineer.
Each time he’s here, he cleans out the filter on the gas valve which is clogged up with very thin flakes of debris which to me look like a silver coloured gold leaf. Once cleaned it all works again. This is happening every couple of weeks and is causing me many days without heating or hot water, days off work for engineer appointments and lots of frustration and stress.
Has anyone else had this issue and can offer any advice on why it’s happening and how it can be resolved?
I’m in the East Midlands and as far as I know none of my neighbours are having this issue.

 

[Riley]

Get national grid back mate is the simple answer

 

[Gasmk1]

it is called sulphidation look it up it is due to th etypes of gas now used affectiong the copper pipe

 

[octopub]

Get national grid back mate is the simple answer

After it happened again the engineer called them out. They checked the working pressure at the meter and said that the debris wouldn't be coming from anywhere downstream of the meter because they'd just put a new plastic pipe in my drive from the mains up to my meter. I'm not sure I'm happy with that on reflection so i will be getting them out again.

 

[octopub]

it is called sulphidation look it up it is due to th etypes of gas now used affectiong the copper pipe

So is this an issue for National Grid to address?

 

[Gasmk1]

So is this an issue for National Grid to address?

no its been going on for years they probably wont do anything as the copper pipe is yours, at one time they used to supply a filter to be fitted by a registered gas safe engineer.

 

[Gasmk1]

Existing Installations
The following remedial actions are recommended;
1. Fitting of Filters
Filters can be fitted immediately before each appliance, a valve being fitted before each filter to allow for safe servicing. Filters will not prevent sulphidation occurring, but they will prevent the flakes being carried in to the appliance. Care must be taken in filter sizing to ensure this will allow them to collect the quantity of copper sulphide formed between service intervals, without causing undue pressure drop.
If filters are not serviced at appropriate intervals the build up of copper sulphide retained will increase the resistance to the flow of gas to the appliance. This may cause the gas pressure under full load conditions to become too low for satisfactory combustion and cause under-gassing.
Each filter should have a pressure connection fitted immediately after it to allow the pressure to be verified under full load before servicing. This should be determined immediately after commissioning, and the pressures recorded and given to the Client. If on subsequent occasions the accumulation of deposits is found to cause too great a pressure drop the frequency of service must be increased.
It is important to clean the filters as part of the appliance service. Filters are not recommended for appliances without a flame failure safety device.

all work must be carried out by a registered gas safe engineer get him to look up sulphidation on the internet and it will give him some clues as to what you are dealing with

 

[octopub]

no its been going on for years they probably wont do anything as the copper pipe is yours, at one time they used to supply a filter to be fitted by a registered gas safe engineer.

Which Pipe is mine?
Surely until the gas supplied is changed this will just keep happening. So replacing a pipe wouldn't make any difference?
As I see it, it's their type of gas that's causing the problem so it should be them that fixes it.

 

[Gasmk1]

the copper internal pipework is yours, give it a try you will get nowhere though.

 

[Riley]

As per my esteemed colleague anything your side of the meter is your problem unfortunately

 

[octopub]

As per my esteemed colleague anything your side of the meter is your problem unfortunately

Why is it my problem when I have no control over the type of gas that is delivered through my pipe?

 

[Riley]

Just the way it is mate they are up to the meter you are after the meter

 

[Dotty]

Why is it my problem when I have no control over the type of gas that is delivered through my pipe?

Because the stenching agent reacts with your copper pipework.

It is what it is. This is one of those situations you'll never be able to change, plenty have tried before you.

 

[tamz]

What you have as said above is flakes of copper sulphide. This is caused by the reaction of hydrogen sulphide (the rotten egg type smell that gives gas its distinctive smell) with copper pipes.
Natural gas (what 99.9% of us use) has none to very little smell so H2S is added to give it the distinctive gas smell.
This reacts with the copper and lines the inside of the pipe with a coating of copper sulphide. It has no effect until the pipe is disturbed then it flakes off in silvery black flakes that will block up filters and jets etc.
As they draw the gas from different fields with varying quantities of, and add the same amount of H2S to the supply, some areas of the country tend to be more susceptible.
Your gas supplier and ultimately the transporter (national grid, transco or whoever in your area) will not under any circumstances accept liability for any damages this may cause to any of your appliances as they are adding quantities of hydrogen sulphide as laid down by legislation.

Solutions
Get a GSR to blow your pipes out with a compressor (if you can find one who has one)
Renew your pipes.
Keep cleaning your filters.

At the end of the day it will cost you a few quid and you will have no claim or comeback against the supplier.

 

[Last Plumber]

http://www.rgii.ie/_fileupload/installer files/Technical Info/TB-0105.pdf

 

[octopub]

What you have as said above is flakes of copper sulphide. This is caused by the reaction of hydrogen sulphide (the rotten egg type smell that gives gas its distinctive smell) with copper pipes.
Natural gas (what 99.9% of us use) has none to very little smell so H2S is added to give it the distinctive gas smell.
This reacts with the copper and lines the inside of the pipe with a coating of copper sulphide. It has no effect until the pipe is disturbed then it flakes off in silvery black flakes that will block up filters and jets etc.
As they draw the gas from different fields with varying quantities of, and add the same amount of H2S to the supply, some areas of the country tend to be more susceptible.
Your gas supplier and ultimately the transporter (national grid, transco or whoever in your area) will not under any circumstances accept liability for any damages this may cause to any of your appliances as they are adding quantities of hydrogen sulphide as laid down by legislation.

Solutions
Get a GSR to blow your pipes out with a compressor (if you can find one who has one)
Renew your pipes.
Keep cleaning your filters.

At the end of the day it will cost you a few quid and you will have no claim or comeback against the supplier.

So do you think that the pipe was already coated with this copper sulphide and then National Grid come along & dig up my drive with pneumatic drills and the vibrations from this caused the disturbance which resulted in the flaking starting?

 

[Riley]

So are you looking for us to confirm that it's The National Grids fault? As I say mate I think you need to take it up with them. I think you'll find it's just one of those things though

 

[octopub]

So are you looking for us to confirm that it's The National Grids fault? As I say mate I think you need to take it up with them. I think you'll find it's just one of those things though

No, not at all. I'm just trying to understand why it's happening & what started it. I appreciate all your comments so far. Very helpful.
I will be taking it up with them as I'd not even heard of this before they turned up.
I find it hard to believe that I should have to pay for something that is damaging my property that I have no control over.

 

[Riley]

All I can say is good luck mate as I don't think you'll get very far unfortunately

 

[tamz]

So do you think that the pipe was already coated with this copper sulphide and then National Grid come along & dig up my drive with pneumatic drills and the vibrations from this caused the disturbance which resulted in the flaking starting?

It takes a few years for the Cu2S to build up inside the pipes and the older they are the more build up. As we have had natural gas since the early 70's that is up to 40 odd years worth depending on the age of your house.
Replacing the incoming service would not have disturbed it. It is a separate pipe and digging up your drive wouldn't disturb it either.
When you last had any work done on a gas appliance (new boiler, fire etc) this would have disturbed it. Bump the gas pipe with the hoover would have disturbed it. ie any movement at all of your internal gas pipes would disturb it.
Condensing boilers, by the way they work are more succeptible to drawing any debris in the pipe towards them especially on a falling supply.

National grid won't entertain you. You are wasting your time.