My neighbours flue is installed on my property & is dripping condensate from both the exhaust and air intake whenever boiler operating. The exhaust has kit fitted and is one metre above air intake so the drips are from different locations but both check out as acidic (i.e. products of combustion). It seems to be a loss of integrity of a seal between air intake and exhaust. Can anyone tell me is this an ID or AR fault and can a registered engineer put an unsafe notice on it.
Discuss Flue dripping from exhaust and from air intake. in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net
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D
Dotty
How long has it been there?
D
Dotty
We're you living there when the boiler went in?
R
Rickster123
It's neither AR or ID
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Why was flue put in over your property. We need a few pics of the flue but from further away to show position. As probably breaches building regs if over your property.
tell your neighbour to get someone to check it out its most likely not installed correctly if its dripping from the tip. Take pictures and upload them. It could also be that the washers have been formed from being in one position for so long and someone may have moved it recently
D
Dotty
Were you asked permission for the flue to overhang your property?
And wind your neck in pal.
R
Rckape
As others have said, not AR or ID.
It might not comply with MI's but it's a matter for building control to check out.
It might not comply with MI's but it's a matter for building control to check out.
D
Dotty
Bit late to involve labc IMHO. This is why I'm trying to drag the info out the op.
If he's given the neighbours the ok for the flue to go where it is, labc involvement or not, he's stymied.
Thought never crossed my mind either, especially given the response I got earlier. I'll allow him a wee back pedal.
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M
Masood
OP is too well-informed and detailed to be an innocent query. I suspect there's far more to this than we're being told... I can't help feeling that a notice has already been issued that the OP is hoping to undermine...
R
Rckape
I fully agree it's probably a bit late, especially if the op has given permission for the install. But it's more of a labc issue than a gas safety one.
D
Dotty
With you there, brother.
I can assure I am being up front. Just trying be short and to the point. I am not an expert although I have tried to do my homework before bothering you guys. The Flue was installed without permission. I rent this property and landlord gave permission for flue to remain despite complaints from day one of it dripping condensate and blowing fumes into my bedroom window. It is at the level of the window and 1 metre in front of it. The landlord cannot permit trespass as that right passes to me as their secure tenant. So the flue can't be serviced or inspected without my permission. As there is condensate dripping from air intake I was wondering if this constituted a potential leak between air intake and exhaust gases and if this made it either ID or AR. If so it can't continue to operate and as they have no lawful right to access it for repair/maintenance they will have to stick it on their own property and let me open my bedroom window when I like. I appreciate you taking time and trouble to comment. Thanks guys.
D
Dotty
Ok, as said it's neither AR or ID, the fall is wrong is all. The flue is doing what it should.
However, if the landlord gave permission for it to remain then there's nothing you can do.
I should be wary of restricting access. If your landlord has granted permission it may put you in contravention of the small print of your letting agreement. But then the gsr would just note access not possible, he only needs to visually inspect it anyway and he could do this by hanging out a window, should there be a suitable one.
I can see where you're coming from but you're going about the issue the wrong way and portraying yourself in a bad light.
However, if the landlord gave permission for it to remain then there's nothing you can do.
I should be wary of restricting access. If your landlord has granted permission it may put you in contravention of the small print of your letting agreement. But then the gsr would just note access not possible, he only needs to visually inspect it anyway and he could do this by hanging out a window, should there be a suitable one.
I can see where you're coming from but you're going about the issue the wrong way and portraying yourself in a bad light.
N
newcastle phill
It is possible to retro fit an adaptor to the end of >some < flues that deflects and directs the plume away.
You may wish to suggest that to the neighbour.
Whatever you do. Do not interfere with, alter or adapt that flue. If you do you could wind up in court or worse as your unqualified and would be seen as malicious.
Can you add a picture from further away to show both properties - your window vs flue from the side angle if your with me..
Regarding access you will be trying to hold back the tide trying to stop that and again without just cause and acting in spite you will end up with court costs against you should he pursue access legally.
You may wish to look at
Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992
Again if you act like an unreasonable a$$ and can show no loss or incurred expense as a result of necessary access then if it goes that way (to court for access) everyones had a great day out and you pick up the tab - as no court would prevent access on the grounds of maintenance for safety.
People just need to get along to make life easy - its too short to be bothered with crap like this imho
You may wish to suggest that to the neighbour.
Whatever you do. Do not interfere with, alter or adapt that flue. If you do you could wind up in court or worse as your unqualified and would be seen as malicious.
Can you add a picture from further away to show both properties - your window vs flue from the side angle if your with me..
Regarding access you will be trying to hold back the tide trying to stop that and again without just cause and acting in spite you will end up with court costs against you should he pursue access legally.
You may wish to look at
Access to Neighbouring Land Act 1992
Again if you act like an unreasonable a$$ and can show no loss or incurred expense as a result of necessary access then if it goes that way (to court for access) everyones had a great day out and you pick up the tab - as no court would prevent access on the grounds of maintenance for safety.
People just need to get along to make life easy - its too short to be bothered with crap like this imho
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T
Tonycane
Looks like it already has a plume management kit installed, have you spoken to the owner of the property involved reasonably? Without seeing a the flue installation i can't really tell if a longer plume kit or just a slight adjustment of the elbow away from your window would solve this?
Hi Newcastle Phill. Thanks for taking the time and trouble it is very much appreciated. The same goes for all the others. It's my first go on a site like this and I am blown away with all the amazing replies.
I appreciate your warning Phill but can assure you I never have and never will interfere with the flue but good advice to anyone in a similar position who may be on a short fuse.
The Landlord is unwilling to help out in any way. They permitted a flue to trespass on my property against my wishes which is in breach of our signed secure tenancy agreement and Housing Act 1998. They are required by these to inform me & must have my consent before making any changes which may affect me. Also the installation does not meet GSR 28 "No person shall install a gas appliance except in such a manner that it is readily accessible for operation, inspection and maintenance" . Getting a court order certainly does not sound like readily accessible or does the need to let them in my front door and through my home into my garden. They could abseil into my garden but not sure this is part of GSR engineers job description ; D.
Access Neighbouring Land Act 2a is applicable here as flue could be easily located on the dominant land. 2b applies as putting a flue on the servient land make it substantially more difficult to carry out essential works. This amounts to Delict (checkout wiki for Delict). They could not make any successful application for an ANL order even if the court ignored the Housing act, tenancy agreement and tenancy laws because 2a & 2b cannot be satisfied. Very good point though Phill.
I was hoping for an easy fix by it being an ID or AR but the consensus seems to reject this.
Regarding lets all get along. That's a 2 way street. Why would the neighbour put a flue outside my bedroom window and then expect me to allow them to enter my home to maintain it? That sounds like being forced to let someone's dog **** in your house and then give them the right to come in when they like to clean it up.
The deflection kit is pointed away from my window but it is at the same height & about I metre in front of it. The flue exhausts into free air i.e. not against a wall so can be blown in any direction. As you probably know plumes can hang around and when a nearby window is open it as a bit like pulling a plug out and the water being sucked down a plughole. I am asthmatic and can't take the risk of long term exposure to products of combustion especially while sleeping. I just keep my bedroom window locked shut and use an extractor fan on the window with an air filtration system fitted where bedroom door transom window used to be. Altering the deflection kit might be a problem. I'll upload some pics to give you a better idea.
You may know about Landlord's annual gas safety checks. I was wondering if that would apply to a third party installations they permitted to be on their tenants property. It would seem proper in this case for the landlord to be obliged to ensure it's safe operation and issue an annual gas safety certificate exactly as they are obliged by law (GSR 36) for any gas installations they own as they essentially are the same thing.
Incidentally the Flue is in breach of Doc j (distance from boundary and roof opening). Funny but if my bedroom window was a roof opening that would also breach Doc J.
The flue is located close to my flue so wonder if that is an issue? (I'll upload some pics)
Sorry for the long post but believe me I am trying to keep it brief without omitting relevant info.
Thanks Again.
I appreciate your warning Phill but can assure you I never have and never will interfere with the flue but good advice to anyone in a similar position who may be on a short fuse.
The Landlord is unwilling to help out in any way. They permitted a flue to trespass on my property against my wishes which is in breach of our signed secure tenancy agreement and Housing Act 1998. They are required by these to inform me & must have my consent before making any changes which may affect me. Also the installation does not meet GSR 28 "No person shall install a gas appliance except in such a manner that it is readily accessible for operation, inspection and maintenance" . Getting a court order certainly does not sound like readily accessible or does the need to let them in my front door and through my home into my garden. They could abseil into my garden but not sure this is part of GSR engineers job description ; D.
Access Neighbouring Land Act 2a is applicable here as flue could be easily located on the dominant land. 2b applies as putting a flue on the servient land make it substantially more difficult to carry out essential works. This amounts to Delict (checkout wiki for Delict). They could not make any successful application for an ANL order even if the court ignored the Housing act, tenancy agreement and tenancy laws because 2a & 2b cannot be satisfied. Very good point though Phill.
I was hoping for an easy fix by it being an ID or AR but the consensus seems to reject this.
Regarding lets all get along. That's a 2 way street. Why would the neighbour put a flue outside my bedroom window and then expect me to allow them to enter my home to maintain it? That sounds like being forced to let someone's dog **** in your house and then give them the right to come in when they like to clean it up.
The deflection kit is pointed away from my window but it is at the same height & about I metre in front of it. The flue exhausts into free air i.e. not against a wall so can be blown in any direction. As you probably know plumes can hang around and when a nearby window is open it as a bit like pulling a plug out and the water being sucked down a plughole. I am asthmatic and can't take the risk of long term exposure to products of combustion especially while sleeping. I just keep my bedroom window locked shut and use an extractor fan on the window with an air filtration system fitted where bedroom door transom window used to be. Altering the deflection kit might be a problem. I'll upload some pics to give you a better idea.
You may know about Landlord's annual gas safety checks. I was wondering if that would apply to a third party installations they permitted to be on their tenants property. It would seem proper in this case for the landlord to be obliged to ensure it's safe operation and issue an annual gas safety certificate exactly as they are obliged by law (GSR 36) for any gas installations they own as they essentially are the same thing.
Incidentally the Flue is in breach of Doc j (distance from boundary and roof opening). Funny but if my bedroom window was a roof opening that would also breach Doc J.
The flue is located close to my flue so wonder if that is an issue? (I'll upload some pics)
Sorry for the long post but believe me I am trying to keep it brief without omitting relevant info.
Thanks Again.
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I may be missing the point on the situation but is your flue not doing exactly the same thing then. I'm not trying to be inflammatory or to wind people up but this is just all sounds a bit weird. I think you have three options
1. Put up with it
2. If you believe your landlord to be in breach of contract then make this your point and leave
3. Get an independent gas safe engineer in to see if there are any gas safety breaches
1. Put up with it
2. If you believe your landlord to be in breach of contract then make this your point and leave
3. Get an independent gas safe engineer in to see if there are any gas safety breaches
R
Rickster123
Don't play with that flue. The exhaust elbow has been moved to point at the window to make the situation look worse than it is. In one pic it's pointing to the side in another it's pointing right. DO not touch the flue.
D
Dotty
I noticed that. No gsr in their right mind would point the plume kit in either other them directions. It's clearly been tampered with.
R
Rickster123
And the pics are dated back in 2013. Move on! And stop adjusting that flue!
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easy enough to fix get a gsr to bring it down to the same level as your flue with the owners permission of course who ever fitted it has done what he would assume to be the right thing by raising it above the parapet to minimize nuisance without knowing the distances involved he may be inside the area he is allowed regarding the velux windows which would also be cured by lowering it
N
newcastle phill
Wow. Must operate like a submarine periscope and turn around by itself - especially as the neighbour doesnt have access.
That is a 1st....
That is a 1st....
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D
Dotty
Think probably best we leave it there now.
D
Dotty
Reopened on basis of pm.
This is going to be one of the few times!
Yashimaki said:
This is going to be one of the few times!
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I am struggling to understand why there appears to be a reluctance to getting a gas safe engineer in on this. Nobody should be touching that flue whether it's you or the owners. I appreciate from reading the rest of the thread that you've done a lot of homework but a gas safe engineer would be able to tell you A. specifically If there is any risk, B if there is any installation fault and C what potential costs would be involved to sort the situation. There have been a couple of suggestions made as to how this situation can be remedied however this still really need to be carried out by a gas safe engineer. We just appear to be going round and round in circles here. I maintain my three options from earlier as this would appear to be your landlords problem as he agreed to it he can't just ignore the problem
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You old softy
N
newcastle phill
So the owner moved it....
One minute "its trespass" "needs my permission"
Seems the OP allows access after all.
One minute "its trespass" "needs my permission"
Seems the OP allows access after all.
Thanks for that Croppie.
Newcastle Phill, I never gave permission to trespass. They just do it from their extension roof. Definately unauthorised trespass by interfering with something on my property even if they do own it, but in the order of universe a mini trespass doesn't bother me as long as they don't point it at my property again. I know it can only be interfered with by a GSR engineer and wonder would an engineer take such a risk rather than ask my permission and do it from mine sensibly from a ladder?
I have called the council and their building inspector paid them a visit. The Inspector first of all said it's legally positioned and complies with regs. I was given a copy of the Building Regs Compliance Cert which says it meets Gas and Building regs. He then backed down after I sent a pic with the flue facing the open rooflights (as posted above). He then agreed it breaches doc j due to roof openings. He says they can alter the openings to make them non opening but I have no way of checking that. Since then they have turned the flue away from directly facing the openings as can be seen in later pics. The Inspector has stopped replying after I said it breaches doc j distance from boundary & he and has not got back to me re the leaks.
I was wondering how condensate gets into the air intake as it seems to me it is leaking from the exhaust pipe into the air duct. Maybe they dislodged something with their periscope turning antics. (Nice analogy newcastle phill. Made me laugh).
Incidentally the flue is not at 90 degrees to the wall it is tilted towards the wall which looks like it is putting pressure on an internal joint and possibly that's why it leaks from the air duct.
Thanks Riley and others for your posts I really do appreciate them all (the good the bad and the ugly
They are all honest and straight talking which is breath of fresh air.
Newcastle Phill, I never gave permission to trespass. They just do it from their extension roof. Definately unauthorised trespass by interfering with something on my property even if they do own it, but in the order of universe a mini trespass doesn't bother me as long as they don't point it at my property again. I know it can only be interfered with by a GSR engineer and wonder would an engineer take such a risk rather than ask my permission and do it from mine sensibly from a ladder?
I have called the council and their building inspector paid them a visit. The Inspector first of all said it's legally positioned and complies with regs. I was given a copy of the Building Regs Compliance Cert which says it meets Gas and Building regs. He then backed down after I sent a pic with the flue facing the open rooflights (as posted above). He then agreed it breaches doc j due to roof openings. He says they can alter the openings to make them non opening but I have no way of checking that. Since then they have turned the flue away from directly facing the openings as can be seen in later pics. The Inspector has stopped replying after I said it breaches doc j distance from boundary & he and has not got back to me re the leaks.
I was wondering how condensate gets into the air intake as it seems to me it is leaking from the exhaust pipe into the air duct. Maybe they dislodged something with their periscope turning antics. (Nice analogy newcastle phill. Made me laugh).
Incidentally the flue is not at 90 degrees to the wall it is tilted towards the wall which looks like it is putting pressure on an internal joint and possibly that's why it leaks from the air duct.
Thanks Riley and others for your posts I really do appreciate them all (the good the bad and the ugly
They are all honest and straight talking which is breath of fresh air.
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N
newcastle phill
Best part is directly below you there is another flue which would be exiting in the same direction the way the 'problematic' flue was angled.
So
A question...
Whose flue is the other one ?
And have you complained about that too ?
Frankly the more you go on and the more images you add shows you in a worse light than previously imho
So
A question...
Whose flue is the other one ?
And have you complained about that too ?
Frankly the more you go on and the more images you add shows you in a worse light than previously imho
N
newcastle phill
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Is that here and I don't mean to be derogatory but is this a wind up. The pictures are just showing a catalogue of oddities with all the boiler installs at the property ???
Can I once again suggest that you get an independent gas safe registered engineer to take a look
Can I once again suggest that you get an independent gas safe registered engineer to take a look
The other flue serves my property and I have full control when it comes on and off. It used to disperse fairly well as it is pointed away from the rear wall and was well below the previous party wall height. Since the neighbours extension was built my flue is boxed in and has become problematic. You can see the frame which used to support the canopy over the kitchen door in one of the pictures I posted. The canopy was removed by me to try and help air flow but it didn't help and so my gas boiler is never used. Electric room heaters and electric immersion heater keep the water hot and the house warm. If you doubt this I've upload a screenshot of my suppliers energy efficency comparison for my home. My last gas bill I had was 371 kwh (from 15 sep to 1 dec). This is for a 3 bedroom terraced house so you can see how little gas is used (98% less than similar efficient homes). And yes I have complained about my flue but it is apparently within the legal requirements so I have to live with it. Whereas the neighbours flue makes a bad situation even worse because I can't open my bedroom window. It might sound off to you why I put up with it, but I've lived here too long. The apple tree in my garden (in a previous pic its in blossoms) was planted as a sapling by my previous wife before she passed away as a living memory of her.Now it's a proper tree and I can't take it with me so here I stay.
I had problems with the Council Building Inspector as previously stated and that didn't come out as well as it should have had I been a bit more savvy. Getting a GSR engineer to inspect the flue is obviously on the agenda but it is always a good idea to get the people who know their stuff to give their advice before doing so. That is what I am doing here. Thanks again for all who have taken the time and trouble to comment as it really does add some perspective.
I had problems with the Council Building Inspector as previously stated and that didn't come out as well as it should have had I been a bit more savvy. Getting a GSR engineer to inspect the flue is obviously on the agenda but it is always a good idea to get the people who know their stuff to give their advice before doing so. That is what I am doing here. Thanks again for all who have taken the time and trouble to comment as it really does add some perspective.
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I'm really sorry but this is just sounding more and more crazy nobody is going to be granted planning permission to build an extension if it is going to make their neighbours boiler redundant or at least as part of the planning permission process this would've been discussed between the owners. if it was your landlord he can't just agree for them to build an extension making your flue unsafe. Properdue diligence would have been carried out ensuring that your flue terminates safely, functionally and correctly. Unless of course there extension is illegal I am sorry to sound suspicious but something just doesn't add up
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Get a Gas Safe Engineer out, good grief.
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Reply to Flue dripping from exhaust and from air intake. in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net
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