Fitting secondhand boiler

[Paul Hobson]

Can you legally take a working boiler from one property and refit it in a completely separate property ???

 

[Ermintrude]

Depends on it's sednuk rating. /condition

 

[SimonG]

Why?.

 

[lame plumber]

why would you do that?

 

[townfanjon]

landlord ?

 

[heliotrope]

The short answer is yes.

 

[lame plumber]

the correct answer is: depends, probably not if is an older boiler and if its a new one youll need new flue to be sure its safe, plus a set of manuals to comply with rules etc.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Depends on what you mean by "legally".

There are circumstances where it could be against the criminal law.

There are more circumstances where it will breach non-criminal statutes - for instance the building regs.

However, there are circumstances where it could be completely legit.

 

[REDSAW]

best asking 'who will fit it' ?

 

[MarkOil]

You would have to check with the manufacturer I think. But to be fair unless its a fairly new condensing boiler, I probably wouldn't bother. If it's SE then I wouldn't entertain the idea!!
Manufacturer would be happy to let a qualified OFTEC engineer know about this

 

[Ermintrude]

Thought a breach of act was criminal?

 

[Ray Stafford]

Thought a breach of act was criminal?

Breach of gas act can be criminal.

Failure to meet building regs is civil.

 

[lame plumber]

but councils have enough money to take you to court then take it back of you when they win

 

[Bunker]

Ive fitted used boilers a couple of times, no harm if done professionally if a little unofficially...

 

[Ermintrude]

Isn't gas regs just a statutory instrument - secondary legislation / reg. think they all fall under the Building act 1984? That's what you go to prison for?

 

[Ray Stafford]

Isn't gas regs just a statutory instrument - secondary legislation / reg. think they all fall under the Building act 1984? That's what you go to prison for?

Not my area of expertise, but I thought that all the statutory instruments merely amended or interpreted the core gas acts - 1986, 1995 etc.

 

[Ermintrude]

Yes believe so but gas regs was brought in to satisfy building act requirements ?

 

[Ray Stafford]

Yes believe so but gas regs was brought in to satisfy building act requirements ?

You could be right Guy.

But its actually a criminal offence to do gas work without the relevant approval. Thats a very different thing to not burying a water main deep enough, or failing to upgrade to part L spec.

 

[Reg Man]

Breach of gas regs (Stautory Instrument) could lead to a criminal offence. So? second hand boiler? Manufacturer instructions available? but may be not compliant with building regs also a criminal offence.

 

[Ermintrude]

But building regs (building act 1984) is above gas regs . That's why gas safe can't chase a non registered muppet but labc can.

 

[Reg Man]

Gas regs are above building regs in the legal world.

 

[Ermintrude]

Ay? A statutory instrument is a lesser bit of statute compared to an act? Buildings act is where it all comes from??
http://www.parliament.uk/business/bills-and-legislation/secondary-legislation/statutory-instruments/

 

[Reg Man]

A matter of interpretation. The act goes into finer details to support the breach of the statutory instrument, therefore prosecution cases use the act to support contraventions of the statute.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Ay? A statutory instrument is a lesser bit of statute compared to an act? Buildings act is where it all comes from??
Statutory Instruments - UK Parliament

yes gas regs override building regs they dont however overide MI,S

 

[Ermintrude]

I was referring to the buildings act - which is where all the regs are derived from / for? Gas regs, building regs, water regs..... Yeh see that gas is over building and so on.

 

[Reg Man]

Mi's are the same level as building regulations, they give the detail to support breach of Gas safety regulations.

 

[Reg Man]

To summarise, Statutory instruments rule above all.

 

[Dotty]

Breach of gas act can be criminal.

Failure to meet building regs is civil.

Isn't gas regs just a statutory instrument - secondary legislation / reg. think they all fall under the Building act 1984? That's what you go to prison for?

Not my area of expertise, but I thought that all the statutory instruments merely amended or interpreted the core gas acts - 1986, 1995 etc.

Yes believe so but gas regs was brought in to satisfy building act requirements ?

You could be right Guy.

But its actually a criminal offence to do gas work without the relevant approval. Thats a very different thing to not burying a water main deep enough, or failing to upgrade to part L spec.

Breach of gas regs (Stautory Instrument) could lead to a criminal offence. So? second hand boiler? Manufacturer instructions available? but may be not compliant with building regs also a criminal offence.

But building regs (building act 1984) is above gas regs . That's why gas safe can't chase a non registered muppet but labc can.

Gas regs are above building regs in the legal world.

Ay? A statutory instrument is a lesser bit of statute compared to an act? Buildings act is where it all comes from??
Statutory Instruments - UK Parliament

A matter of interpretation. The act goes into finer details to support the breach of the statutory instrument, therefore prosecution cases use the act to support contraventions of the statute.

yes gas regs override building regs they dont however overide MI,S

I was referring to the buildings act - which is where all the regs are derived from / for? Gas regs, building regs, water regs..... Yeh see that gas is over building and so on.

Mi's are the same level as building regulations, they give the detail to support breach of Gas safety regulations.

To summarise, Statutory instruments rule above all.

However, when referring to an OIL boiler.........

Any of you clock what forum this is in?

 

[Ray Stafford]

However, when referring to an OIL boiler.........

Any of you clock what forum this is in?

Nope! <blushes>

 

[Ermintrude]

Yes still building act, covers oil gas biomass !

 

[Reg Man]

Thanks John; thread was not specific, but obviously oil boiler? So though the comments were valid for gas, it has not addressed the oil situation. No statutory instrument, so follow BS5410, OFTEC, building regs, buildings act 1984.

 

[WHPES]

Basically if it's a standard efficiency boiler, no.

Condensing boiler yes provided its fitted to MIs and complies with regs.

 

[Bri Weaver]

Seriously would you fit a second hand boiler that some ham fisted numpty had fitted years ago and never flushed out for a customer, even if the customer supplied it, which i dont do cos it might be stolen, you would be going back to repair it from here to eternity out of your own pocket cos in the customers eyes you fitted it so your responsible for it , and no manufactures guarantee would cover you either

 

[Jimbob]

I was always told if it's A rated gas boiler and has manufacturers instructions you can. Iv refitted a rated combis before

But don't know about oil. Would be interested to know though

 

[stani]

I was always told if it's A rated and has manufacturers instructions you can. Iv refitted a rated combis before

told by who?

 

[SimonG]

I would assess the situation and decide from there. I have had instances where I have said no and one instance where I have done it.

 

[Jimbob]

However, when referring to an OIL boiler.........

Any of you clock what forum this is in?

Ha iv only just noticed this is oil. That'll teach me to skip through.

 

[WHPES]

I've fitted a 2nd hand boiler before but as I say to all customers, it takes just as long and needs just as much material as a new boiler. To be fair the last 2nd hand boiler I did was only a year old and came from a house that was being conencted to the gas main so nothing wrong with it. Wouldn't fit a 2nd hand Warmflow or anything like that however!

 

[brum]

I would assess the situation and decide from there. I have had instances where I have said no and one instance where I have done it.

so have I just depends on how skint you are

 

[wetdrip]

Well, as of 14.50pm today, there's 1,671 used boilers for sale on ebay.
Looks like a healthy market, and prison overcrowding on the way

 

[teabreak]

Thanks Croppie, for pointing out what should be the obvious. Back to Topic, my interpretation is, if it's a HE Boiler LLD or Balanced flue then OK as long as installation complies with BS5410, Part J and of course Part L1b. If its SE or open flue, far too much trouble.
Just because someone else fits them, doesn't make it right.
Any S/H boiler decommissioned and standing empty is corroding internally.... so my advice is leave it alone and protect your reputation as a honest professional tradesperson (PC)

 

[SimonG]

Thanks Croppie, for pointing out what should be the obvious. Back to Topic, my interpretation is, if it's a HE Boiler LLD or Balanced flue then OK as long as installation complies with BS5410, Part J and of course Part L1b. If its SE or open flue, far too much trouble.
Just because someone else fits them, doesn't make it right.
Any S/H boiler decommissioned and standing empty is corroding internally.... so my advice is leave it alone and protect your reputation as a honest professional tradesperson (PC)

Thanks for the pointer, but I will use my own judgement.

 

[Dotty]

Besides which the second hand boiler in the OP has probably been fitted by now.......

 

[SimonG]

Probably on his second, second hand boiler.

 

[Ermintrude]

Most new boilers I fit look second had at end of first day!

 

[WHPES]

Or in the case of Warmflows, the second hand ones are probably better than the new ones as the chances are someone has fixed all the leaks for you.

 

[Bunker]

I just pulled out a wall hung Thermecon condenser. Bloke who bought the house is having the garage sorted out and wanted a new one. So here I have a 5 year old Thermecrap....Ill stick it on ebay, I just cant bring myself to bung it.

 

[WHPES]

Got a 2nd hand 2 year old Vortex Pro now. Customer gone for Biomass and old boiler in perfect condition. Got someone who wants one so going to fit it for them, Act as agent on behalf of customer and take commission on the sale. I fitted the original so I know its OK.

 

[jase158]

2 question I always get:
can I put a new fire on that back boiler- no sorry
can you move this boiler - no unless it has a condensate and flue is available to buy

simples!!!

 

[WHPES]

You are allowed to relocate an existing standard efficiency boiler within a property and it does not need to be notified (so said my LABC), but the expense of doing so would be a waste of money to move a really old one.