Hi all. As most of you know I have recently passed my ACS exams and Ive been working as a plumbing/heating engineer for nearly 2 years. I'm the first to admit I've got a massive amount of learning still to do. Problem I'm faced with now is the fact after 2 years I'm still only earning £60 a day. I'm a 33 yr old with 2 young kids so to say I've been scraping by is a big understatement. I knew it would be a big sacrifice to pursue this career but the time has come that something needs to change. I can earn £60 a day stacking shelves if I'm honest and I get the impression the boss will not want to pay anything more till I've done 4 years cos that what he had to do as a 19yr old. Difference being, after 6 months of him doing it he hadn't even soldered a joint. I on the other hand was fitting a boiler under super vision, start to finish. With out going in to all the details I just want some advice as to what steps to take? How do I apply for a job when I've still got lots to learn without getting an apprentice wage? I'm able to carry out all the duties that are given to me just not at a lightning pace. Any advice you guys have would be appreciated.
Discuss Career path choices? in the Plumbing Jobs | The Job-board area at PlumbersForums.net
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The best thing to do is put your CV on places like monster jobs and CV library, then let the recruitment agencies find you. You will get calls from them who have found potential jobs for you.
This saves you the time and also means they have a rough idea of what their client is looking for, experience etc.
This saves you the time and also means they have a rough idea of what their client is looking for, experience etc.
R
Rickster123
Have you asked your boss for more money? What do you feel you are worth to him?
I
IDCHAPPY
I'd love £60 per day, i take out £750pm out my company.
Your probably worth more mate, ask for an extra £20 a day and see what he says?
Your probably worth more mate, ask for an extra £20 a day and see what he says?
You need to have a word with your boss really. It all depends what sort of income you can generate him as to what you are worth, everyone will be different with skill level, speed etc. Having your ACS will give you more to negotiate with buy you also need to appreciate he gave you the opportunity and has been taking the time to teach you etc. I know for a fact there will be weeks or months even when you have cost him money and made him nothing.
M
Masood
Apply for a few jobs with other plumbing companies. That will give you an idea of what you're worth on the open market as it were. Then either jump ship or approach your boss with the offers you've received and ask him to better them.
If he has any sense he will make a better offer than the others rather than just matching them, as he knows you, and trusts you. If you leave and he has to take someone new on, it's a risk.
Where are you based?
If he has any sense he will make a better offer than the others rather than just matching them, as he knows you, and trusts you. If you leave and he has to take someone new on, it's a risk.
Where are you based?
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When I first did my gas I was offered a job for £8.50 ph as I was an ''improver'' I declined as I wanted to set up shop on my own; although I thought it to be fair. It seemed good as I was on £6.31 as an Apprentice
I was then offered a last year job for £13.75 which by alrights is above average around these parts, I didn't take it though, I don't think a firms for me.
Although this looks okay if you want to be worked to the bleeding bone.. which I don't.
[DLMURL]https://careers-pimlicoplumbers.icims.com/jobs/1091/heating-engineer---%C2%A32000-per-week/job[/DLMURL]
I was then offered a last year job for £13.75 which by alrights is above average around these parts, I didn't take it though, I don't think a firms for me.
Although this looks okay if you want to be worked to the bleeding bone.. which I don't.
[DLMURL]https://careers-pimlicoplumbers.icims.com/jobs/1091/heating-engineer---%C2%A32000-per-week/job[/DLMURL]
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Well I know for a fact he charges me out for a lot more than £60 a day. My colleagues who can't do plumbing are on £120. I would like £100
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Thought about sub contracting to one of the big boys. Easily get £20 per hour and you can take as much or as little as you want in a week
No, you'd get more than £60 for stacking shelves!
You boss knows you've got two kids and bills to pay the same as everyone else.
And it's a crying shame he's got a businnes to run... Boo Hoo
If it were I , at 33 years old with two kids, I'd consider the £60 a day wage to show a serious lack of respect from your boss. Actually I'd consider to be taking the ....... ....!
I'd get the hell out of dodge.
Have a word, if he does't like it, start looking elsewhere. Then when your gone, he's only himself to blame.
You boss knows you've got two kids and bills to pay the same as everyone else.
And it's a crying shame he's got a businnes to run... Boo Hoo
If it were I , at 33 years old with two kids, I'd consider the £60 a day wage to show a serious lack of respect from your boss. Actually I'd consider to be taking the ....... ....!
I'd get the hell out of dodge.
Have a word, if he does't like it, start looking elsewhere. Then when your gone, he's only himself to blame.
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R
Rickster123
Who paid for your training and acs assessment?
Last month my nipper 23 years old started work with a fabrication company, as he's waiting to start his plumbing and gas training sometime this year.
He's on, just let's say a lot more than you.
If he cannot sort you out with a healthy wage which will allow your children to have a decent diet....Move!
When you have time P.M me your details and I'll ask around.
I'm based in Coventry, but know a few guys in the Brum area.
That current wage is putting your kids at risk.
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I would disagree to be honest, just because of your situation you aren't morally entitled to anything. Its to do with your skillset and what you are worth to the company. Your boss will have invested a lot of time and effort in to training you and getting you to the level that you are at now. You are still learning the trade after just 2 years and by all means ask for a pay rise but to be expecting £100-120 a day is a little optimistic if you ask me. Does your boss pay for your training? Do you have a company van and paid holiday etc?
I would disagree to be honest, just because of your situation you aren't morally entitled to anything. Its to do with your skillset and what you are worth to the company. Your boss will have invested a lot of time and effort in to training you and getting you to the level that you are at now. You are still learning the trade after just 2 years and by all means ask for a pay rise but to be expecting £100-120 a day is a little optimistic if you ask me. Does your boss pay for your training? Do you have a company van and paid holiday etc?
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Hi macka ., how long have you worked for this employer ? and b4 this employer any experience in this trade ?
You said in your original post 2 years , is that the total time spent in the trade and although its not that great for an adult trainee maybe but ok for school leaving apprentice,
Might be worth sitting down with your boss and talking this over, so many employees feel they cant approach or dont like to approach there boss but often its the best way forward,
You said in your original post 2 years , is that the total time spent in the trade and although its not that great for an adult trainee maybe but ok for school leaving apprentice,
Might be worth sitting down with your boss and talking this over, so many employees feel they cant approach or dont like to approach there boss but often its the best way forward,
I'd have to disagree with you, I earn £80 a day
Provide all my own tools
My own van & insurance
All my own work clothes
Everything,
I have weeks where I go and do all the work and my boss dose nothing at all
It doesn't bother me what my boss does or earn. It's what I earn that bothers me. I wouldn't expect my boss to do as much as me but do expect a proper wage. I earned £60 a day 15 years ago.
It will be interesting if the liveable wage is ever introduced. I can't see many apprentices coming through in a lot of trades. The attitude of the older generation really does have a hindrance on development. In my opinion.
It will be interesting if the liveable wage is ever introduced. I can't see many apprentices coming through in a lot of trades. The attitude of the older generation really does have a hindrance on development. In my opinion.
R
Rickster123
If that attitude comes accross to him I'd be thankful for still being employed! You're two years in. I earnt 90 quid a week for four years. You gotta suck it up a bit.
R
Rickster123
Im a believer in loyalty and respect. I'm assuming that he's paid for your training and acs? He gave you an opportunity that many would give their right arm for.
He hasn't paid one pence to my training, not one. Funny really cos when I approached him about doing the ACS he didn't want me to. Then when he thought a combi swap contract was coming in he was all for it. Funny really. The reason he went self employed straight after college was due to his boss not paying him what he felt he should be.
Unfortunately in these circumstances my loyalty is with my family and as I previously mentioned, I can earn more as a shelf stacker.
Unfortunately in these circumstances my loyalty is with my family and as I previously mentioned, I can earn more as a shelf stacker.
Without sounding harsh and without knowing how long you have had your gas and what you can actually do this probably will sound harsh.
It does go on the amount of time served. You are still classed as an improver when I was an improver I got £4.25 ph and moved company to get £7.50ph. Once you have a few years gas under your belt then you are worth more to a company and you can start earning more. It is the same in every job and just because you have your ACS doesn't mean you are a gas engineer it is merely the start.
Don't think how much your boss earns from you because as a lead engineer my boss was earning£500+ a day and I was earning £115. Did I want more money? Of course, was I gonna get it? Not a chance.
I worked with a lad who got his ACS (all paid for by the company) and he walked in and said I am now fully qualified I want the same as the rest (a £2.50 ph pay rise) the boss wasn't particularly impressed and said when you find your feet and can do basic breakdowns with ease and do installs without phoning people then you can have a pay rise but you won't be on the same as the rest.
You have started what could be a cracking career and just because you are older than a 20 year old with 2 years experience doesn't mean you are worth more, suck it up for another year learn as much as you can and then prove you are worth more.
Again sorry if it sounds harsh.
It's not harsh mate I know where your coming from.
Me personally I don't think someone's pay should be based on timed served for all sorts of reasons but that's my opinion.
Why I started the post was down to the fact that I need to earn more than £60 a day and I certainly need to learn more than I currently do on the job. The fact the company are going away from domestic work also isn't something I wanna be doing.
Nice to see all the difference of opinions though. I did start a post a while back about why people went self employed and most said it was money and not wanting to listen to an idiot, so I'm not the only one lol.
Me personally I don't think someone's pay should be based on timed served for all sorts of reasons but that's my opinion.
Why I started the post was down to the fact that I need to earn more than £60 a day and I certainly need to learn more than I currently do on the job. The fact the company are going away from domestic work also isn't something I wanna be doing.
Nice to see all the difference of opinions though. I did start a post a while back about why people went self employed and most said it was money and not wanting to listen to an idiot, so I'm not the only one lol.
Our weekly food bill, there are three of us, and this is only at Morrisons on a Saturday morning is between £110 to £130; varies if we need washing powder etc
Now we are not a drinking family, so at most there'd be 4 cans of Boddingtons or Vitamin G in the above bill.
That's only Saturday, so there's fresh fruit and veg , and bread plus other bits and bobs we buy through the week from our local shops the Hill.
God only knows what would happen to you, if you have an out-of-the-blue, crashing expense.
I think you'd find it hard to come back from.
If at all.
I'm all for showing loyalty, but we are taking about BASIC SURVIVAL here.
Now we are not a drinking family, so at most there'd be 4 cans of Boddingtons or Vitamin G in the above bill.
That's only Saturday, so there's fresh fruit and veg , and bread plus other bits and bobs we buy through the week from our local shops the Hill.
God only knows what would happen to you, if you have an out-of-the-blue, crashing expense.
I think you'd find it hard to come back from.
If at all.
I'm all for showing loyalty, but we are taking about BASIC SURVIVAL here.
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R
Rickster123
So at this stage two years in what do you feel you are worth? What can you do on your own unsupervised?
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not all wages are paid in pound notes.
first year i was unpaid
second i was on £20 a day
third i was on £30 and had my fuel paid for.
i did jobs on the side and earned a few more grand a year but that went on tools
now experience !!
first year was priceless
second year was priceless
third was also priceless
he's got your foot in the door and be thankfull for that.
apply for other jobs and see what happens.
or approach your boss, point out the wage can't support you much longer.
ask for a road map on increasing your wages, if he can't tell you the criteria you have to meet.......
first year i was unpaid
second i was on £20 a day
third i was on £30 and had my fuel paid for.
i did jobs on the side and earned a few more grand a year but that went on tools
now experience !!
first year was priceless
second year was priceless
third was also priceless
he's got your foot in the door and be thankfull for that.
apply for other jobs and see what happens.
or approach your boss, point out the wage can't support you much longer.
ask for a road map on increasing your wages, if he can't tell you the criteria you have to meet.......
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I think imho this job has kept your head above water ...as for paying for your own training and losing money having to take unpaid leave I don't believe you owe any loyalty to this company I think you need to look around and check out whats available taking into account your skill/experience see what you can get and then ask your boss for an increase....maybe check out the likes of british gas where you would obtain extra training and regular payments i.e holiday sick pay ........and remember if you don't ask you won't get.....best of luck regards Turnpin:smile5:
How many kids do you have Billy?
I
iain85
Ah billy, good to see you're still alive. Did you ever digitise all those training manuals I gave you? Would be good to share them out on here like you said.
Amen to that.
Just to buy my 3 & 1 yr old children shoes and a coat eAch cost me nearly 2 days wages. Not named gear either.
Over a days wages for a weeks shop, without nappies or toiletries.
The maths don't add up at all at the moment which is why something needs to change. Fortunately me or the mrs don't drink or smoke and we certainly couldn't afford to now lol
Just to buy my 3 & 1 yr old children shoes and a coat eAch cost me nearly 2 days wages. Not named gear either.
Over a days wages for a weeks shop, without nappies or toiletries.
The maths don't add up at all at the moment which is why something needs to change. Fortunately me or the mrs don't drink or smoke and we certainly couldn't afford to now lol
R
Rickster123
Thats not the point at all. Billy trained early in life. His choice. Macka has trained later. His choice.
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none, i had to be supported myself during that period (18 to 22)
nor would i expect anyone to work to those wages i listed, however that was my route, others have done it on less !!!
if i had kids that i couldn't support i would be applying for other jobs and asking what i need to do to earn more in that role
I will always appreciate the fact he gave me an opportunity but 2 years in and no rise, no benefits and no sign of anything changing I need to look elsewhere.
The day he told me he was driven by money put it all in to perspective for me. I also know he lied to my colleague who recently joined us, about what he was looking for in a employee. So I know he can't be trusted either.
The day he told me he was driven by money put it all in to perspective for me. I also know he lied to my colleague who recently joined us, about what he was looking for in a employee. So I know he can't be trusted either.
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i am alive !!
they are on my training shelf in my bedroom, i need to get them scanned and copied!!
i also need to take you for a curry and a pint with added apologies.....
R
Rickster123
Why? You start at the bottom. It's always been that way hasn't it? Money gets better over time but it's not an overnight fix.
I
iain85
You owe me nothing but would be nice to see you before I head abroad. I hope life is treating me well?
If you're pressed for time lad I'll get them back of you and send them on. Up to you but would be nice for as many people as possible to gain from them.
If you're pressed for time lad I'll get them back of you and send them on. Up to you but would be nice for as many people as possible to gain from them.
I would be looking, I managed to get a hefty pay rise (although only to what you are on now) I was massively out of my comfort zone and it was a sink or swim situation, if it wasn't for another bloke helping me I would of sank massively but after 3 months I was holding my own and 6 months I started flourishing.
What do you get through in a day?
Most companies I've worked for over the past few years
Installers have been on about £25000 a year and expected to do a neat combi swap in a day.
Service and breakdown engineers between £26-28000 and expected 8+ jobs a day average with no more than 10% call back.
What do you get through in a day?
Most companies I've worked for over the past few years
Installers have been on about £25000 a year and expected to do a neat combi swap in a day.
Service and breakdown engineers between £26-28000 and expected 8+ jobs a day average with no more than 10% call back.
It's the same in every job.
There does seem to be a lot of people do 6-8 week courses and expect to be earning 70k a year. Not completely there fault I don't think anyone would do them if they got told once you complete you will be on minimum wage for a year and then it will start creeping up!
How long would it take you to do a combi swap?
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