Advice Please!! British Gas Safety Notice

[Knight175]

Hi All,

I wonder if someone might be able to offer some advice / guidance? I am not a plumber, so bear with me here, but have a problem with my house central heating system and wanted to seek some advice as according to British Gas, our installation contravenes Building Regs!!

My house was built Dec 2009 and is fitted with a Range Tribune Unvented Central Heating system.

Earlier this year, we had a leak coming through the ceiling directly underneath what we now understand to be the discharge pipe. After 4 weeks(!) and 4 or 5 visits, the original plumbers (having cut holes in the ceiling to try and get access to the leak) finally found and fixed the leak, having realised it was accessible through the airing cupboard after all (thanks for the 40x40 hold in the ceiling you left me to repair) As well as the leak in the discharge piping, the pressure vessel diaphram had also split, causing the vessel (white one) to fill up with water, fall off the wall and leave a huge dent in the cylinder. Thank god it landed balanced on the cylinder and didn't split the connecting hose...

8 months on from having that fixed, I've just had British Gas come and do my boiler service. The first thing the British Gas engineer says to me on inspection of the central heating system is that it will not be covered by them as it does not adhere to G3 of the building regs. He has issued me with a safety notice and suggested I contact the house builder directly...

According to him (and the Cylinder installation manual), discharge arrangements should use copper (not plastic as we have) piping. Also, this piping should not be fed into the main waste / soil pipe.

How serious is this type of problem? and how big a job is it to correct? I will obviously need to contact the housebuilder but not sure how to approach it with them. From previous experience, their customer service and attitude to fixing problems has left much to be desired (car port condemned & rebuilt, leaky roof, uneven floors, electrical faults, exposed wiring, wrong flooring laid etc....)

I would imagine I am one of perhaps 4-500 houses on this new estate that has the same problem. It also begs the question as to how thorough any inspection was prior to signing the house off?? If indeed the installation does contravene building regs, are they obliged to correct it or has that responsibility lapsed after nearly 4 years?

I guess its by the by now but I'm also left wondering if the pressure vessel filling with water might have had something to do with the leak? Might it have caused the discharge to operate and in doing so, contributed to the leak which we ended up paying the same company to come back and fix?

Any help or advice would be most appreciated!

Regards,
Adam.

 

[nysk2008]

Ok, so I think the BG is talking about your "d2" pipework which is the discharge pipework (normally 22mm) from the tundish? Do you have any pics?

 

[SimonG]

Really need a pic, because from the description it could be wrong or it could be fine.

 

[Knight175]

Hi nysk2008, thanks for the reply. Yes, I believe it's (D2) discharge pipe in the manual.
Sorry, pic is quite small but as you can see, the metail joins to plastic near the bottom and is then plastic underneath the floor. I believe this goes under floor across to our ensuite and then down via the main soil pipe.

 

[SimonG]

Is the plastic under the floor push fit or solvent weld? Can't see anything wrong with the picture.

 

[nysk2008]

so the D2 terminates in to a hep trap (or a fanny trap as some people call them), I cant see, any bend less then 300mm from tundish, so in my opinion it looks fine, I personally wouldn't stress about it

 

[lame plumber]

if the pipe is glued joints then it doesnt comply with building regs as it isn't able to withstand the high heat generated when the cyl vents its contents if need be. re going into soil pipe you can pour boiling water down your drain ok and that applies to the temp of the water escaping from your cyl. rules have been amended recently, Mr BG might not have read them yet or the wrong type of plasstic pipe may have been used, hence the earlier questions

 

[Knight175]

Sorry, I don't know what type of plastic pipe it is & not sure I could find out either now. BG guy just said you can't use plastic for D2 piping as it would just melt if discharged. Also said it shouldn't go to the main waste / soil pipe.

 

[SimonG]

It looks like copper that goes into a hepvo trap and then plastic from there. BG man needs to update his g3, if he has it.

 

[Knight175]

if the pipe is glued joints then it doesnt comply with building regs as it isn't able to withstand the high heat generated when the cyl vents its contents if need be. re going into soil pipe you can pour boiling water down your drain ok and that applies to the temp of the water escaping from your cyl. rules have been amended recently, Mr BG might not have read them yet or the wrong type of plasstic pipe may have been used, hence the earlier questions

Sorry, posted the last message just after you replied.
If thats the case and it doesn't need fixing then great. Now I just have the problem of trying to convince British Gas its ok. We've just taken out HomeCare cover and according to the engineer, this wouldn't be covered now following his safety note.

Do I just leave it then or try and convince BG its ok? I guess its up to them if they don't want to cover it or not, seems a little unreasonable though that we shouldn't be covered if it is just down to a case of one engineers opinion....

 

[lame plumber]

prehaps you need to invest the monthly fee for homecare and when the boiler etc fails you'll have some money set aside, as you may now realise BG is just another large company trying to make money out of worried householders, and they dont know it all.

 

[SimonG]

Scrap the BG homecare and instead put the money in a savings account and find a good independent gas safe engineer. Could save you a fortune.

 

[Knight175]

Thanks for the help & advice guys, much appreciated.

To be honest, I'm clueless when it comes to plumbing and the whole pressure vessel + leak experience just leaves me nervous about it happening again. That was the whole reason behind the HomeCare thing so I'll see what they have to say about it. If they won't cover it, I don't see why I need the cover...

Thanks, Adam.

 

[anz]

I agree with the above, there is no need for it, just save the money that you'd pay for it and use a local tradesman when needed.

You should get a better service and save some money.

 

[nysk2008]

I work for a bg competitor and it seems to me their picking holes to exclude elements of your central heating care, I personally would have passed this installation going on your pics as there is no way the bg engineer could know what is going on beneath the floor boards, if it is a new build property ish, your probably running a potterton or an ideal and I would take your money elsewhere

 

[Masood]

If you look carefully, there is what looks like a solvent-weld coupling on the horizontal pipe run near the floor. The fitting doesn't look bulky enough to be push-fit.

If it IS solvent-weld then I'm afraid the BG man is right.

 

[AlexGas]

Looks painted copper to me.

 

[Kev the gas]

I know we all have bad days but imagine the poor sod who wakes up in the morning knowing that he has
20 airing cupboards to paint all the pipes with silver paint, makes you think !!!!!!!!!

 

[AlexGas]

He's a hero!

 

[AlexGas]

...

 

[Masood]

Looks painted copper to me.

View attachment 14661

It is! I realised afterwards and tried to delete my post but obviously it didn't work.

I blame the small screen on my phone...

 

[SimonG]

It is! I realised afterwards and tried to delete my post but obviously it didn't work.

I blame the small screen on my phone...

Technology eh!

 

[AWheating]

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/100312_app_doc_G_2010.pdf

read from page 27 of the pdf

http://www.nhbc.co.uk/NHBCPublicati...ical/StandardsExtra/filedownload,34921,en.pdf

excepted method of the nhbc, page 2 of the pdf


so aslong as the correct plastic and installation methods have been used then your discharge meets the current regulations and the BG engineer can eat brown!

 

[Ermintrude]

I agree with the above, there is no need for it, just save the money that you'd pay for it and use a local tradesman when needed.

You should get a better service and save some money.

No need for homecare or any of the other rubbish.... £45 a month for cover yet if rad bursts you only get replacement rad and collateral damage is on your home insurance (250 per year?)

boiler should be serviced annually, cylinder and controls also inspected by suitably qualified person?

 

[Simon F]

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/100312_app_doc_G_2010.pdf

the building regs are free to download, you could show the relevant section to the BG man
the section in question is 3.60, it might seem like a foreign language,
eg :- " a mechanical seal, not incorporating a water trap"
that is the hepvo valve as fitted




beat to it

 

[bigcheese]

No need for homecare or any of the other rubbish.... £45 a month for cover yet if rad bursts you only get replacement rad and collateral damage is on your home insurance (250 per year?)

boiler should be serviced annually, cylinder and controls also inspected by suitably qualified person?

£45 a month isn't just for boiler and controls. That will include electrics, drains etc.

 

[lame plumber]

£45 a month isn't just for boiler and controls. That will include electrics, drains etc.

no advertizing unless you pay to be a sponsor

 

[Bernie2]

Get a copy of the manufacturers installation manual see what that says and show to BG. You could always contact the manufacturer for any updates as well.

 

[SafeGasInstall]

withdraw your home care and "keep walking away happy "

I might not be the sharpest knife in the draw but since when a UNHWC is a part of the central heating ?

 

[stevetheplumber]

all these schemes are is a savings plan without interest

 

[Ermintrude]

all these schemes are is a savings plan without interest

Or any government backing to ensure u get ur money back.