AT RISK WATER MAIN EARTH BONDING THROUGH METER BOX BACK PLATE

[chris123]

Could someone take a look at this for me please?
Just had a boiler put in our property on a grant scheme. The boiler is great other than him not cleaning the pipework including gas joints before leaving .
I've cleaned it up and it seems alright.

My other main worry though was what the follow up electrician has done in the meter box;

He's put the water mains bonding from the stop tap inside the kitchen to the main gas bonding clamp on the outlet of the meter which I think is ok (the main gas bonding is in right place),

but he's also drilled through the back plate and through the building fabric into the kitchen under the units and I'm also pretty sure it's narrow cavity wall. Can someone confirm this is "at risk" please? There's not even any sealing compound either on the hole in the box.

Does this come under?
:
The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998
PART C
Reg 13.—(1) Where a meter is housed in a meter box or meter compound attached to or built into the external face of the outside wall of any premises, the meter box or meter compound shall be so constructed and installed that any gas escaping within the box or compound cannot enter the premises or any cavity in the wall but must disperse to the external air.

I just don't feel comfortable with it and thought I should give the company the chance to put it right. A new alternative hole could be drilled perhaps somewhere to the right side of the box on the same motar line and this one repaired I would have thought with a slightly longer length of earth cable to replace this one.
appreciate it thanks.
Chris.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yep also it’s modifying the meter box technically as it’s not an approved hole so needs a new meter box and the earth moving externally or via an approved entry

 

[chris123]

Yep also it’s modifying the meter box technically as it’s not an approved hole so needs a new meter box and the earth moving externally or via an approved entry

Thanks for your time and kind help, I'll be in touch with them about it shortly. Much appreciated.

 

[Murdoch]

Yep also it’s modifying the meter box technically as it’s not an approved hole so needs a new meter box and the earth moving externally or via an approved entry

really. that means a large percentage of gas meter boxes need replacing from what I see on my travels

 

[ShaunCorbs]

really. that means a large percentage of gas meter boxes need replacing from what I see on my travels

Yep can only go through where the pipe goes as you can seal eg there’s a spigot

 

[Ben-gee]

Can’t you just seal up where the cable goes through, on both skins of wall, with ct1 etc?
If not, why not?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Can’t you just seal up where the cable goes through, on both skins of wall, with ct1 etc?
If not, why not?

Movement needs to have a spigot so the seal can’t fall out / debond

 

[chris123]

Movement needs to have a spigot so the seal can’t fall out / debond

If the hole in the backplate can't be repaired will it need national grid?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

No it shouldn’t

 

[chris123]

No it shouldn’t

ok cheers, it's just I'd never seen one swapped out before only put on prior to a new service and ecv going in it. appreciate the response thanks very much

 

[Deleted member 120897]

I wonder why there’s 2 bonds? Seems daft to have modified the box when existing already.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Just needs sealing with a compound that's flexible. Like silicone.

On my gas safe inspection I had a property that I took him to where the Electrician had been after I had visited - they'd drilled though the top left corner. He pulled it and said just seal it up with silicone. Only like the spigot in the rear of the gas box when sealed.

 

[Deleted member 120897]

Just needs sealing with a compound that's flexible. Like silicone.

On my gas safe inspection I had a property that I took him to where the Electrician had been after I had visited - they'd drilled though the top left corner. He pulled it and said just seal it up with silicone. Only like the spigot in the rear of the gas box when sealed.

Excerpts from gas safe TB102 (Location of protective equipotential bonding on gas installation pipework in domestic premises), doesn’t mention just siliconing up.

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

Excerpts from gas safe TB102, doesn’t mention just siliconing up.

Oh I agree, but at the end of the day it's been done incorrectly which i'm not disputing. But it's been done, and logically it isn't feasible to easily replace the meter box. Sealing the hole up so that it becomes air tight I think is acceptable, and seems that so of a Gas Safe inspector too.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Oh I agree, but at the end of the day it's been done incorrectly which i'm not disputing. But it's been done, and logically it isn't feasible to easily replace the meter box. Sealing the hole up so that it becomes air tight I think is acceptable, and seems that so of a Gas Safe inspector too.

2 hours maximum to change the meter box aslong as you have met1 (technically you can do it without but it’s a grey area)

 

[Ric2013]

Excerpts from gas safe TB102 (Location of protective equipotential bonding on gas installation pipework in domestic premises), doesn’t mention just siliconing up.

Your reference is to a built-in meter box whereas the OP's is surface mounted. I'm not a gas installer myself, but logic would dictate that if the hole in the wall is filled in, any potential leak will be to the outside air - which shouldn't be an issue as the box itself is not designed to be airtight. Had it been a box built into a wall, I'd understand if it's a different kettle of fish.

 

[Deleted member 120897]

Irrelevant - wrong pieces of info

 

[ShaunCorbs]

The first set of bs are correct even if it’s a surface meter box as there is a path to the cavity and not approved Method

 

[Ric2013]

The first set of bs are correct even if it’s a surface meter box as there is a path to the cavity and not approved Method

Read what I said again please - if the hole in the wall is filled in.

Obviously the cable needs re-routing first and I'm not arguing otherwise. Would you, speaking seriously, replace the entire meter box to remedy a small hole in the back that could be patched up? Reason I ask is many gas boxes of a certain age have damaged doors or rodent damage and landlord's certificate inspections don't seem to care too much, which I assumed was because there wasn't a path to the inside. Is this wrong?

Irrelevant - wrong pieces of info

Who's info is irrelevant?

 

[Deleted member 120897]

Who's info is irrelevant?

I replied again, so it was my 2nd info that was irrelevant.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Read what I said again please - if the hole in the wall is filled in.

Obviously the cable needs re-routing first and I'm not arguing otherwise. Would you, speaking seriously, replace the entire meter box to remedy a small hole in the back that could be patched up? Reason I ask is many gas boxes of a certain age have damaged doors or rodent damage and landlord's certificate inspections don't seem to care too much, which I assumed was because there wasn't a path to the inside. Is this wrong?


Who's info is irrelevant?

Yes no different to the gas pipe not being sealed the spigot / manufacturer holes are there for a reason

Can you guarantee that hold will stay sealed / tight to the cavity just by putting a blob on it

 

[Deleted member 120897]

A broken door - if there’s gas escape, chances of entering the building are slim.

A siliconed hole - whereby the hole into the fabric of the building won’t necessarily be sealed - chances are more likely (a risk).

 

[EvilDrPorkChop]

A broken door - if there’s gas escape, chances of entering the building are slim.

A siliconed hole - whereby the hole into the fabric of the building won’t necessarily be sealed - chances are more likely (a risk).

Only similar to the material used to seal the pipe to the box coming away - and it happens when they've used putty.

 

[chris123]

Appreciate everybody taking time to comment by the way folks thanks very much everyone.

 

[Ric2013]

Yes no different to the gas pipe not being sealed the spigot / manufacturer holes are there for a reason

Can you guarantee that hold will stay sealed / tight to the cavity just by putting a blob on it

Hiu Shaun,

I agree with your point: a blob would be a bodge and a proper repair would be more laborious.

However, if the wall were mortared up AND the hole in the plastic repaired using Araldite (or better still actually glue a patch over the hole), I think it's guaranteed no gas will escape to the cavity. As an RGI, would you be happy with this or is it still a no no?

 

[chris123]

Does anyone have any recommendations or suggestions for a sleeve for the earth cable so it can be put safely through the cavity wall near to the gas meter box?

 

[Ric2013]

Assuming it's outside the box, and it's going straight across the cavity, I'd be interested to know whether electrical regulations strictly require a sleeve? If not, then I'd suggest any common sense material (offcut of pipe or hose) would do as they would class as a cable installation aid.

 

[chris123]

Assuming it's outside the box, and it's going straight across the cavity, I'd be interested to know whether electrical regulations strictly require a sleeve? If not, then I'd suggest any common sense material (offcut of pipe or hose) would do as they would class as a cable installation aid.

right thanks, just with it being probably near the meter installation thought it would be for the best. cemented in place and with a good bit of non setting compound perhaps in the end. they suggested 20mm conduit on the electrician forum

 

[ShaunCorbs]

20mm conduit or a bit of 15mm copper either acceptable

 

[chris123]

20mm conduit or a bit of 15mm copper either acceptable

Thanks Shaun.

Today the company have replied to a recent initial email I sent with the photos saying:

"Hi,I have returned from annual leave this morning , I will investigate this and get back to you when I have more information. Are you happy for us to seal the wire? Thank you"

I havent replied with an alternative yet. Just wanted to formulate the best counter suggestion.

Cheers

 

[ShaunCorbs]

I wouldn’t want them to as they wouldn’t be able to guarantee it also you might have a service later on and someone flags it up

 

[chris123]

I wouldn’t want them to as they wouldn’t be able to guarantee it also you might have a service later on and someone flags it up

yes thanks that's what I thought too, about follow up problems

 

[Michael Groves]

Yep also it’s modifying the meter box technically as it’s not an approved hole so needs a new meter box and the earth moving externally or via an approved entry

I found this thread on the Electricians forum, I was not aware us sparks could not drill a hole in the meter box, but now I know, it makes sense. Maybe I'm the only spark that does not know this, but I doubt it. There is nothing in our regs, and we are the ones fitting the bonding, so the IET should include this in our regs so we don't continue to do this. But as commented previously, there must be loads of boxes that do not comply. Replacing the whole box seems over the top if this is the only non compliance.
Looking at the regs snip, it seems to me that the requirement is to make the rear part of the box air tight. I'm thinking a Wylex Membrane Cable Entry gland should be sufficient. I know the Wiska membrane glands are IP66, I assume Wylex will be the same. So this could be an easy fix ?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Problem is it has to be tested to be air tight tbh these days I don’t know why there isn’t a m20 threaded hole so you could put a gland in it etc

 

[Michael Groves]

Problem is it has to be tested to be air tight tbh these days I don’t know why there isn’t a m20 threaded hole so you could put a gland in it etc

Yeah I agree, it’s all about proof.

M20 thread Sounds like the perfect solution.

I was just thinking we could just drill and use compression gland, but often the spark arrives after all done, so we could not get a nut on.

Although most import thing is education.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yeah I agree, it’s all about proof.

M20 thread Sounds like the perfect solution.

I was just thinking we could just drill and use compression gland, but often the spark arrives after all done, so we could not get a nut on.

Although most import thing is education.

Hence why they drill a hole where they can get too it’s one of them needs more communication on new builds

 

[Murdoch]

Problem is it has to be tested to be air tight tbh these days I don’t know why there isn’t a m20 threaded hole so you could put a gland in it etc

External box tested air tight? Is this real? Our gas meter cupboard door doesn’t even seal properly

 

[ShaunCorbs]

External box tested air tight? Is this real? Our gas meter cupboard door doesn’t even seal properly

Yes in regards to leakage into the cavity

 

[Murdoch]

Yes in regards to leakage into the cavity

every day is a learning day.

shame the gas regs people and the electrical regs people cant agree on consistency of wording of regs

 

[ShaunCorbs]

every day is a learning day.

shame the gas regs people and the electrical regs people cant agree on consistency of wording of regs

Classic one is the new ones 18th am3 I think, if poly / plastic incoming yours doesn’t require to have sup bonding where as ours stat you must

This day and age you would think they would get together and have a meeting

 

[Murdoch]

Classic one is the new ones 18th am3 I think, if poly / plastic incoming yours doesn’t require to have sup bonding where as ours stat you must

This day and age you would think they would get together and have a meeting

AMD 2

Yes, hopeless isn’t it

The muppets come up with electrical changes to justify new books, exams etc and they can’t even check they are understandable or logical. And they rarely correct earlier mistakes or errors.

With the 18th edition, the printed version was slightly different to the electronic version

 

[ShaunCorbs]

same as the gas lot then changing regs to justify there job

 

[Pssst]

The only opening in a built in gas meter box should be the outlet pipework spigot which must be fitted with the spigot adaptor to form a conduit through the cavity. Earthing should preferably be attached to the gas pipe immediately inside the property and the spigot sealed with non setting compound. No other holes are permitted in the box. The reason why of course is that such holes would permit gas leakage from within the box to enter the wall cavity.