Grabbed By The Balls

[village idiot]

I am not smiling. I have a feeling I should never have gotten involved. Only time will tell:mad2::mad2::mad2:

 

[Rickster123]

Better than a kick in the balls...

 

[Crinkmeister]

Might depend who grabbed them...

 

[village idiot]

Might depend who grabbed them...

Well, I have just been given a contract by a landlord who has over 150 properties. So far, so good. So there are a good number of boilers that needs replacing, a lot of CP12's, servicing and new installations in houses he is converting to flats.

There are 5 boilers to install next week. Two are replacing combi to combi's and three are new installs in house being converted to flats.
Trouble is he sent me a mail today informing me he will be buying all the materials, parts, etc. I must only just charge the labour element. I can see problems. Missing parts, wrong materials, etc. OK, I will have my materials I can fall back to and finish the jobs, but I can just see him arguing that I am making up the materials??? Then there will be the question of wanting to pay a lot less for the jobs as he says I will not be short of work? Yeah, SO???

I think there is going to be tears

 

[IDCHAPPY]

Tell him to kiss your bum

 

[village idiot]

Tell him to kiss your bum

I can just see his face

 

[snowhead]

Attend job, parts supplied are wrong or missing = invoice for waste of time.
Plus all warranty problems are chargeable.

 

[townfanjon]

landlords !!!!! nah

 

[Ermintrude]

Jog on ! My favourite expression. Expect he will only be buying valliant ecotec plus and copper? I think not . Heatline and plastic same as most sub Saharan landlords!

 

[Ray Stafford]

Well, I have just been given a contract by a landlord who has over 150 properties. So far, so good. So there are a good number of boilers that needs replacing, a lot of CP12's, servicing and new installations in houses he is converting to flats.

There are 5 boilers to install next week. Two are replacing combi to combi's and three are new installs in house being converted to flats.
Trouble is he sent me a mail today informing me he will be buying all the materials, parts, etc. I must only just charge the labour element. I can see problems. Missing parts, wrong materials, etc. OK, I will have my materials I can fall back to and finish the jobs, but I can just see him arguing that I am making up the materials??? Then there will be the question of wanting to pay a lot less for the jobs as he says I will not be short of work? Yeah, SO???

I think there is going to be tears

#

You say he has given you a contract. Is there actually a contract? A document that defines what each party are going to do?

Because if not, then I fear you are right - it will end in tears.

And landlords with 150 properties don't appear from nowhere. Have you had a chance to speak to whoever used to do his work? That could be most illuminating.

 

[AWheating]

give him a day rate, if the materials are not there then next day it will cost another days money.

 

[albatross]

Walk away.

 

[village idiot]

We have not exchanged any contracts, so nothing in ''stone'' yet.
As for the type of boilers Erm, you would be surprised. He insists it he only fits Worcester Bosch boilers. I have informed him I'd prefer Ideal logic+ Combi instead. I am amazed at the number of landlords I work for who only fit Worcester Bosch boilers?????? I hate them with a passion. The new compact ones are even more of a pain to fit. Even removing the front cover and accessing innards is one big joke.

 

[villa_tom]

We have not exchanged any contracts, so nothing in ''stone'' yet.
As for the type of boilers Erm, you would be surprised. He insists it he only fits Worcester Bosch boilers. I have informed him I'd prefer Ideal logic+ Combi instead. I am amazed at the number of landlords I work for who only fit Worcester Bosch boilers?????? I hate them with a passion. The new compact ones are even more of a pain to fit. Even removing the front cover and accessing innards is one big joke.

Thats what good advertising does for you

 

[josh]

I to hate the WB compact, thought it was me being the idiot when i was taking out no end of screws.

 

[village idiot]

Thats what good advertising does for you

You can say that again. Every single one of the new compact ones I have fitted has managed to cut me somewhere when I pick up the jig?? But no need phoning WB as they will say; ''if you had bothered to read the case cover before removal, you would have seen the warning about sharp edges''. great

 

[gasmanrob]

I had a similar landlord do that until one of his parts went under warranty and needed changing and I slapped him with a bill for doing it. When he questioned it I said the part wasn't supplied by me and the warranty doesn't lye with me it's between him and his supplier I am just swapping it over. After a bit of to and throwing it was agreed I supply all parts in future.

he only wanted to supply them so he could claim back the vat against his commercial properties and off set the costs the naughty boy!

 

[village idiot]

I to hate the WB compact, thought it was me being the idiot when i was taking out no end of screws.

Nope. Why go to all that trouble of screws here and there, when with the old ones, you remove clip at top, undo two bottom screws and slide out. Simples. But oh no. WB needs to make their product look superior by giving you hell to install it. ffftttttt.

BTW, When I spoke to the landlord earlier today, I made him aware that I will not be prepared to wait for 28-30 days for payment. I expect to be paid after every job. He said if that is my preference, he will do that. That being the case, I can always walk away if he starts to drag his foot with the payments.

He wants to only pay £140 daily rates and £42 for each CP12. I've informed him I charge £200/day and £50 for CP12. Just have to wait and see what he comes back wit on that issue. He claims he used to pay the other chap £120/day. Yeah, right. It aint gonna happen with me. Period.
He has between now and Wednesday to convince me or I am walking.

 

[Ermintrude]

Bet he's got some great carrots.dangle dangle. Was in local corner shop, he pipes up about services and cp12s.... Can u do them we have hundreds of houses...... We just paid BG 7k for cover....... ( ok so why are we talking I'm not BG. Keeps on. Not interested. We service and maintain loads of boilers. Only deal with landlord if it's lucrative.... But usually find you service and repair and cp12 and some illegal will be doing installs. " oh he's really good, fitted boiler in 2 hours for £100." No stat, no benchmark, undergassed plastic. It's all there. But he can't change a thermo on a bbu! Assholes!

 

[REDSAW]

Nope. Why go to all that trouble of screws here and there, when with the old ones, you remove clip at top, undo two bottom screws and slide out. Simples. But oh no. WB needs to make their product look superior by giving you hell to install it. ffftttttt.

BTW, When I spoke to the landlord earlier today, I made him aware that I will not be prepared to wait for 28-30 days for payment. I expect to be paid after every job. He said if that is my preference, he will do that. That being the case, I can always walk away if he starts to drag his foot with the payments.

He wants to only pay £140 daily rates and £42 for each CP12. I've informed him I charge £200/day and £50 for CP12. Just have to wait and see what he comes back wit on that issue. He claims he used to pay the other chap £120/day. Yeah, right. It aint gonna happen with me. Period.
He has between now and Wednesday to convince me or I am walking.

heard that figure before, must be trending?

find the bloke who used to do it and contract him?

 

[parkesy_plumb]

Only did one job for a landlord, well tenant, who told me that he was in touch with his landlord and "ok'd" me to install at the property. Turns out he didnt "ok" me and the tenant has ripped me right off. Lesson is kids, there are no friends in business and get everything in writing.

 

[oz-plumber]

You are sounding very cynical about this person.

Personally, I would try and get the work!!.

You make it sound like the guy wants it all his way.
Why don't you try and meet the guy and have a discussion.
It sounds like a person worth getting a working relationship happening.

Express your concerns - have him voice his concerns - and see if you can work out a mutually agreeable compromise.

Personally, I would work on the prospects - at least in the interim.
It may go sour - better to find that out prior to starting any work that finding out after you have completed some work.

Keep it professional - you never know where it will take you

 

[woodsy]

I'm a great believer in your gut instinct or my problem radar as I call it. The couple of times I've gone against it, it's cost me money. To me, you are already arguing about money and you've not even started. The jobs have a going rate and try taking promises about 150 houses to Asda when you need the weekly shop.

 

[iain85]

Just quote each job on price work for what its worth to you. Stand your ground and be prepared to walk. These landlord clowns don't allow for time taken to register boiler, survey job etc. etc..

 

[WaterTight]

there is only one type of property tycoon. and the word is not repeatable in a public forum.

 

[northcarr]

Every time I agree to customer/builder getting the materials it ends up costing me,I insist on supplying it myself. The last time I let someone supply bits missing and arguments over the bill.

 

[WaterTight]

Also can anyone think of a single reason why a customer would supply materials (not including sanitaryware or something where design is a preference) other than a tacit implication that they don't trust you not to rip them off? that's a great starting point for a business relationship. As has been said before, try doing that at your local garage and see what happens.

 

[Gray0689]

If the Old plumber was being paid on time and no problems
He would still be doing the work

If it looks to good it normally is

 

[Chris F]

I would give it a wide berth.

 

[WaterTight]

What do you experience physiologically when a customer mentions they have lots of other properties? Is it avaricious glee? Or the sinking feeling you're about to be someone's pig?

 

[village idiot]

I'm a great believer in your gut instinct or my problem radar as I call it. The couple of times I've gone against it, it's cost me money. To me, you are already arguing about money and you've not even started. The jobs have a going rate and try taking promises about 150 houses to Asda when you need the weekly shop.

I have been in the situation where failing to follow my gut instinct has turned out to be a disaster.
Last night, I sent him details of all the materials I will need for the job (including pipe clips). He replied querying my need for a length of 15 & 22 mm copper pipes? Said all I need to do is take out old glow-worm boiler and fit the one he provides.

As if it's as easy as that, ffftttttt. When I rang to tell him there is more to replacing a boiler than just taking old one out and replacing with new, he said I must email him details of the exact work replacement procedure. I am happy to do that, but if this is how every other job is going to be, then I think this relationship will end before it even begins. I am more than happy to leave behind any off-cuts and left over copper pipes etc for him to retrieve at his convenience.

Apparently, BG (with whom he says he has a Service Contract) have asked him to replace four boilers in the last two months all of them fitted 4-5 yrs ago. I wonder why??? If you are paying £120/day to an RGI, chances are there will be no incentive to properly flush the system

 

[tamz]

Only did one job for a landlord, well tenant, who told me that he was in touch with his landlord and "ok'd" me to install at the property. Turns out he didnt "ok" me and the tenant has ripped me right off. Lesson is kids,

If a tenant wants work doing tell them they pay on completion (cash) and claim it back off the landlord. Let them do the arguing about money.

I have been in the situation where failing to follow my gut instinct has turned out to be a disaster. Last night, I sent him details of all the materials I will need for the job (including pipe clips). He replied querying my need for a length of 15 & 22 mm copper pipes? Said all I need to do is take out old glow-worm boiler and fit the one he provides. As if it's as easy as that, ffftttttt. When I rang to tell him there is more to replacing a boiler than just taking old one out and replacing with new, he said I must email him details of the exact work replacement procedure. I am happy to do that, but if this is how every other job is going to be, then I think this relationship will end before it even begins. I am more than happy to leave behind any off-cuts and left over copper pipes etc for him to retrieve at his convenience. Apparently, BG (with whom he says he has a Service Contract) have asked him to replace four boilers in the last two months all of them fitted 4-5 yrs ago. I wonder why??? If you are paying £120/day to an RGI, chances are there will be no incentive to properly flush the system

Don't waste your time with clowns.

 

[GasmanxxxR1]

I dont work for landlords anymore, as soon as they start going on about how many properties they own blah blah blah i just put the phone down

 

[mfgs]

The landlord sounds like a bit of a nightmare, but is the work worth the hassle. The CP12's alone if for all 150 properties are worth over 6k, but no doubt as with any landlord they will kick up a fuss if you find any safety issues.

 

[Gray0689]

A landlord with 150 property's
I'd be thinking he has someone managing it not messing about like this himself

 

[village idiot]

A landlord with 150 property's
I'd be thinking he has someone managing it not messing about like this himself

Just goes to show what Ray S said at the very beginning. Find the previous plumber and ask what went wrong. The fact he is this involved, signals problems. Besides, do i really want to put myself in a position where my regular customers will take second place?

 

[Ermintrude]

A landlord with 150 property's
I'd be thinking he has someone managing it not messing about like this himself

He might be the inlaw! We used to work for a family who own a fair proportion if the business parks and retail space and even an old train station or two, they own platforms the lot and lease back to nexus. It has an antiques fair on it (pure tat) he runs this too. He drives a vogue and an r8 when not in his t5 for work! Nice really but he's the inlaw and they have a lot of wonga. Just built a tesco on some land and now building 400 houses in co Durham .

 

[village idiot]

My main reason for wanting to take on the jobs was that I could take on the responsibility of ''training one or two kids from college as they are constantly asking for help in getting their foot in the door, seeing that the job will be steady. But considering how it is lookig as if he wants to watch every penny, I am tempted to walk away

 

[Gray0689]

Sure if you want the work take on a few jobs and see how it goes

 

[Worcester]

Sure if you want the work take on a few jobs and see how it goes

In fact approach him that way, on the basis of - we don't know each other lets work together for a couple of weeks and see how it works for both of us, if after that time either of isn't;t happy, let's review and give each other the opportunity to walk away with no bridges burnt.. He'll get to know your standard of work and amount of recalls, and you get to see if he's a penny pinching b**t**d or a fair an honest guy..

 

[armyash]

As someone mentioned earlier, I'd have a face to face meeting and iron out the details. You go with all your conditions written down and see what he has to say. Nothing annoys me more than being on a job and having to go off and get bits. I think it might be hard work but i'd have a go, if he can agree to enough of what you want to make it worthwhile.

If he is being that fussy over a couple of lengths of pipe then he isn't going to find it easy to find someone else to take on the work.

I admit I'd be tempted to get in with him if he does have that much work going.

Interested to see what happens but I could easily see village idiot passing it up if it will be too much stress. I swear some people think it's possible to do a boiler swap just by looking at the boiler on the wall in a certain way.

 

[WaterTight]

there's so much ill feeling towards big time landlords that there might be a niche in it.

Do you own "lots of properties?" Has the demanding, corner-cutting, money-driven mentality you worked so hard to cultivate made it difficult to keep a tradesman playing fetch for more than 5 minutes? We at Bend Me Over Plumbers know our place. Only fast track engineers, half the going day rate, no request refused, no bodge below us.

 

[oz-plumber]

Village Idiot,

I think you, with the help of others, have convinced yourself not to take on the work.

What the....is wrong with you and others!
Has there been a positive post about this thread...no...all negative.

From what i can gather, you don't have any confidence in yourself or your ability to undertake the tasks requested, then you advertise the fact in a public forum.

How about being positive, go see the bloke and nut out a deal that suits you both.

I don't see the situation very different from quoting a customer for a boiler changeover.
You are most probably quoting against other contractors, offering the same services at around the same price. Who wins - the Plumber whom the customer feels most comfortable with.

This situation is no different - just on a larger scale.

You thinks this bloke has got you by the balls, by what definition.
You haven't even sorted out a price yet - nor a contract.

If you agree to a deal, that you believe you have been had, then you are only to blame.

 

[Killy Bing]

Village Idiot,

I think you, with the help of others, have convinced yourself not to take on the work.

What the....is wrong with you and others!
Has there been a positive post about this thread...no...all negative.

From what i can gather, you don't have any confidence in yourself or your ability to undertake the tasks requested, then you advertise the fact in a public forum.

How about being positive, go see the bloke and nut out a deal that suits you both.

I don't see the situation very different from quoting a customer for a boiler changeover.
You are most probably quoting against other contractors, offering the same services at around the same price. Who wins - the Plumber whom the customer feels most comfortable with.

This situation is no different - just on a larger scale.

You thinks this bloke has got you by the balls, by what definition.
You haven't even sorted out a price yet - nor a contract.

If you agree to a deal, that you believe you have been had, then you are only to blame.

As said landlords that big don't appear from no where.
nor do they change engineers unless the engineer throws in the towel from the crap.

VI will quote then be told what he's going to get paid regardless, if he refuses he will lose the lot.

cousin has over 80 properties, he won't even offer me the work as he knows i won't play ball with him.
Nor put up with the crap his current guys takes.

15 quid a cert + boiler service.

he also farms the installs to anyone thats cheaper than his current guy.

carrot on the end of the stick, have to put up with bully tactics to get a sniff of it.

I hope your landlords are more agreeable in oz!
hope your government is also harder on em

 

[A1P]

Oz-plumber and Worcester put the case for exploring it further and as usual Ray makes a sensible comment.I would think it worth some of your time to see if it WORKS FOR YOU.The signs are not good,bordering on cheap rates and control of materials.He would need to understand boilers are not fitted on day rate.He needs to understand if you don't supply it he is on his own re-any future issues.
Clearly many have similar experiences to me,cheapest rates,want it done now etc.In some ways I find estate agents worse than landlords.They have their own agenda and want a mark up on everything.I have found they will use you when desperate but any further work is on their terms.Bigger jobs e.g boiler swaps go to the cheapest bid even if you have spent time diagnosing and trying to solve a problem for them.They often regard visiting and diagnosing a problem and quoting as a freebie-'You haven't actually done anything have you?'At least if you are dealing direct you can form sort of agreeable relationship or walk.What happened to the other guy who did his work would be worth knowing.

 

[Millsy 82]

I have worked for quite a few landlords over the years a few have been good most are not worth talking to.

150 properties is a lot of work and could be very lucrative but could also be a pain.

If it was me I would be going to see them at a quote and talking through what needs doing on a job. I would then also be discussing prices and timescales. I my self would be happy to do cp12 only for £42 for anyone with a large number of properties as that would be a good little money earner. But for a day rate I wouldn't drop below £200 and who is deciding how long a job takes as he might think a full heating system can be done in a day. So give him estimate of timescales (combi-combi swap horizontal flue no gas run and short condense run- 1day anything else is extra).

I would do it but you have to be firm with landlords if they think they can push you around they will! That's what he is doing at the moment testing what you will tolerate.

 

[Ermintrude]

No idea where my post went?

 

[buckley plumb]

I have a landlord and they have their own pts account - I have authority to order the parts on it . I just charge for my time when ordering etc . to be honest it can be a big plus as no worry about the outcost of parts .also on boiler breakdowns no fear of ordering parts you need or think you need

 

[pipefitter]

I've had regular work from a landlord for the last 10 years & it's been all good....I have access to all accounts if & when there is a problem he just wants it sorted & never ever queries my charges ,I do tend to put my self out a bit for him ,if there is a call out I do go there ASAP & I don't over charge him for this .i look after around 60 properties for him and at one point it was a bit full time but now the heating and plumbing is upto a better standard the call outs have virtually stopped & it's mostly just maintainance now which is all nice & simple ....... I would say have a chat with him & try & come to an agreement

 

[RoyalCrabs]

Do it your way or not at all if that is YOUR way of working, tell him to hire someone else..

You cant do a job properly if you cannot be confident in who you're working for right?