Oil safe? Should there be a scheme similar to gas safe for oil techs?

[Whl4852]

Well the question says it all really? What does everybody think? Should oftec be the sole governing body? Would make it easier for me certainly. A plumber near me tells me he doesn't even bother with oftec, that's all well and good, but what happens when it all goes wrong? Just wanted some feedback from you guys?

 

[SimonG]

Should be, won't be, and oftec are as much good as a chocolate firegaurd.

 

[Whl4852]

What's it gonna take to change things? Think oil guys need to stick together and push them

 

[Roger Welton]

Same as always, not enough money to be made from having one or not costing those with the power enough not having one.

 

[Whl4852]

Well I think it's crazy, was watching a guy installing an oil tank last week. Was single skinned up against te house, he said he would even bother with oftec. Ok that's ll well an good, but what would happen if it split, insurance and environment wise? Oftec don't have any enforcement whatsoever.

 

[erpkid]

Strict regulation is a mixed blessing. If Oil was regulated in the same rigorous way as Gas then there would still be cowboys who didn't bother and the genuine installers would be paying a premium in fees to pay for membership. With gas most of the public wouldn't touch it and the message has been hammered home for decades. It will be an uphill struggle.

 

[TomLane]

I'd always assumed that oil was regulated in the same way as gas!!

My knowledge of oil is limited & don't have much call for it near me so I've never really looked too much in to it!

In my opinion it should be regulated. Surely it is as volatile as gas if it is incorrectly installed?!

 

[Whl4852]

I'd always assumed that oil was regulated in the same way as gas!!

My knowledge of oil is limited & don't have much call for it near me so I've never really looked too much in to it!

In my opinion it should be regulated. Surely it is as volatile as gas if it is incorrectly installed?!

not to mention the enviromental impact, ever seen 1000ltrs of kerosene on a lawn :nono:
nothing will grow there for a thousand years

 

[SimonG]

Strict regulation is a mixed blessing. If Oil was regulated in the same rigorous way as Gas then there would still be cowboys who didn't bother and the genuine installers would be paying a premium in fees to pay for membership. With gas most of the public wouldn't touch it and the message has been hammered home for decades. It will be an uphill struggle.

We do pay a premium to the chocolate fire gaurd brigade. Had it out with oftec and they couldn't give a monkeys about non registered operatives. They are only in existence to police their members.

 

[TomLane]

not to mention the enviromental impact, ever seen 1000ltrs of kerosene on a lawn :nono:
nothing will grow there for a thousand years

Exactly, that's what I was thinking.

Relatives of mine have oil & when you walk in the back yard you can always get a whiff of it in the air! It's always worried me the fact you can smell it. There's no leak or escape or whatever the technical terminology is but still worries me!

 

[SimonG]

Exactly, that's what I was thinking.

Relatives of mine have oil & when you walk in the back yard you can always get a whiff of it in the air! It's always worried me the fact you can smell it. There's no leak or escape or whatever the technical terminology is but still worries me!

It'll be the vent off the tank.

 

[TomLane]

Oh I see, so it's actually a good thing it can be smelt then!

Otherwise I guess it would go..... boom

 

[Whl4852]

even after having a tank removed it still lingers in the air, my van stinks of it.

 

[dancinplumba]

love that smell

 

[Whl4852]

love that smell

secretly i think my mrs loves it too, better than chloroform

 

[erpkid]

love that smell

Don't do oil....wife hates the rough hands as it is.......the smell might be the final straw

 

[Whl4852]

Don't do oil....wife hates the rough hands as it is.......the smell might be the final straw

mine wont take the hint, she's still here :banghead:

 

[SimonG]

Love the smell of kerosene in the morning, afternoon, evening

 

[on31ll]

get a petition going send it round here then round facebook then send it to oftec ! surely its in there best interest to be the gas safe of oil ? make more money ?

 

[Plumb Ugly]

I think oftec registration should be mandatory for anyone working with oil although its not so volatile as gas its still potentially highly dangerous I mean co is co no matter what the source and no less poisonous! Iv been told unoffically that its not mandatory because not enough people have died because of oil appliances!!

 

[lame plumber]

the only thing that will bring them round to introducing new rules is when they find a family of 12 sat in their lounge one xmas all killed thro co poisoning fm an oil burner, its why gas safe/corgi came about, to many stiffs.

Regards the smell of kerosine, love it, it means the bank account has been rejuvinated again and secretly oil services are more profitable than gas as they take longer so you do less so fixed costs are less, ONCE youve bought all the kit and spares!!!!!!!

 

[lame plumber]

I think oftec registration should be mandatory for anyone working with oil although its not so volatile as gas its still potentially highly dangerous I mean co is co no matter what the source and no less poisonous! Iv been told unoffically that its not mandatory because not enough people have died because of oil appliances!![/QUOTE

if you were to look at gov paperwork it would be there, not enough deaths to warrant changes. same reason the public can go out and buy gas related products, not enough dead yet to warrant upseting the massive retail vote fm b& q etc. Once a member of the public manages to create the gas equivalent of dunblaine or Hungerford you watch the rules change again

 

[Dannypipe]

Glad this subject has been raised. After years of using an OFTEC registered engineer to commission by installs (totally legal), I decided to finally get registered last year so I could keep that money myself.

I've found OFTEC to a pain in the backside... for new businesses to get registered we now need to undertake a business audit, (it's none of their business how I run mine) they force you to buy a work warranty insurance (through them for just over £50) and they force you to buy paper work (£150 worth of books, and loads of pads) If you don't have these they send you a 'non conformity' letter.

Its just jobs for the boys, and squeezing the conscientious installers who want to be seen as registered. Squeezing them for every penny they can get away with and in return policing their members (as someone else said) and letting the cowboys do whatever they want. I'll keep registered for 5 years, and then not both requalifying.
I personally hate the smell of kerosene!!

 

[on31ll]

how much in total it cost you danny if you dont mind me asking training and all ?

 

[Whl4852]

Glad I raised this subject, has made for interesting reading...where I live it's all oil!

 

[Dannypipe]

how much in total it cost you danny if you dont mind me asking training and all ?

Of the top of my head, about £700 training, plus £150.00 books, plus I think about £400 for initial registration, plus the £50.00 'warranty insurance' then there was an increase in my public liability insurance to cover the even of a large oil spill, and of course the time taken off work.

Oh and about £60.00 in pads and labels (for commisioning, installing tanks etc).

I got qualified for tank installs too. Anyway, I am on a bit of a rant. I think I'll go crack a beer open and chill. Given myself tomorrow off!

 

[Whl4852]

Of the top of my head, about £700 training, plus £150.00 books, plus I think about £400 for initial registration, plus the £50.00 'warranty insurance' then there was an increase in my public liability insurance to cover the even of a large oil spill, and of course the time taken off work.

Oh and about £60.00 in pads and labels (for commisioning, installing tanks etc).

I got qualified for tank installs too. Anyway, I am on a bit of a rant. I think I'll go crack a beer open and chill. Given myself tomorrow off!

And since you've paid all that, have you serviced/installed many?

 

[Dannypipe]

Glad I raised this subject, has made for interesting reading...where I live it's all oil!

Mixture round me of gas,oil,lpg and electric.

I work on all of them. I grew up in a house that uses LPG, first place I rented was oil, then moved into Tunridge Wells and had gas. I'm now back out in the sticks last year I installed an electric flow boiler!!

Fitting solar panels in the summer, they're allready bought, and the cylinder is installed in the loft. I like diversity!!

 

[Dannypipe]

And since you've paid all that, have you serviced/installed many?

Installed one since I registered and serviced one.

The majority of my work is gas. Which I'm thankful for, as I don't like smelling like a diesel pump!!

I mean offense to anyone, I know some people love the smell!!

 

[Whl4852]

Installed one since I registered and serviced one.

The majority of my work is gas. Which I'm thankful for, as I don't like smelling like a diesel pump!!

I mean offense to anyone, I know some people love the smell!!

I also love the smell of solvents, think I'm just easily addicted :bobby:

 

[gasmanrob]

Mixture round me of gas,oil,lpg and electric.

I work on all of them. I grew up in a house that uses LPG, first place I rented was oil, then moved into Tunridge Wells and had gas. I'm now back out in the sticks last year I installed an electric flow boiler!!

Fitting solar panels in the summer, they're allready bought, and the cylinder is installed in the loft. I like diversity!![/

Out in the sticks? So where's that matfield ,bedgebury ,edenbridge? Just being nosey only I do a fair bit of LPG out that way.

 

[gasmanrob]

But where do we stand as heating engineers though because if joe blogs fitted an oil boiler and blew up his cow shed he can say he didn't know better, but if I was to do it then as someone who is gas safe registered I should know the risks and know better I'd be hung out to dry! I honestly thought oil was policed so to speak in the same way gas is.

 

[lame plumber]

the first one to kill someone will be policed, believe me, just cos oftec isnt mandatory the BSs and building regs are, so you kill someone infringing those and your bum is theirs.

 

[heliotrope]

the first one to kill someone will be policed, believe me, just cos oftec isnt mandatory the BSs and building regs are, so you kill someone infringing those and your bum is theirs.

So you are saying that if I am not registered and if I mess up and someone dies then I
am in big trouble.

But! If I am registered and a few people perish because of my errors then i get a pat on
the back and get told, never mind you are one of the boys, carry on.:teeth_smile:

 

[lame plumber]

So you are saying that if I am not registered and if I mess up and someone dies then I
am in big trouble.

But! If I am registered and a few people perish because of my errors then i get a pat on
the back and get told, never mind you are one of the boys, carry on.:teeth_smile:

hopefully if your oftec you know what your doing so it shouldnt happen, just makes it easier for them to chew your bum if you are!

 

[Dannypipe]

I'm in Chiddingstone Causeway Rob. Just outside of Penshurst.

Surrounded by fields. Couldn't live in a city, as Towns go I love Tunbridge Wells...but property is very expensive.

 

[heliotrope]

hopefully if your oftec you know what your doing so it shouldnt happen, just makes it easier for them to chew your bum if you are!

Why should I only know what I am doing if I am oftec registered?

I am asking why it should be different whether I am registered or not!!!!!

 

[lame plumber]

with you there cant stand all the stop start of cities. just looked at your website, nice bathrooms dp

 

[gasmanrob]

Nice! see living in the sticks is a bit of me but the mrs won't have any of it. So I live in gillingham doesn't have the same ring to it though.

 

[Reg Man]

You have started somthing now. We will now see Oil Safe Register run by CAPITA :82:

 

[WHPES]

All I can see from my village is fields and woods. Lived in a town briefly as a student and hated it. We do go to York for days out but wouldn't like to live there.

 

[on31ll]

Mad isnt it ! So £1500 quid for training, registration and pieces of kit for somthing you dont legally need ! All for that badge on your van

 

[SimonG]

I don't even have the badge on the van

 

[Dannypipe]

I'm liking a lot of these posts. Country folk allegiance!!

If I want to visit the big smoke, I can walk to a station from my house in about 5 minutes, and within an hour I'm up there.....and within an hour I'm ready to leave again!!

 

[lame plumber]

there seems to be 2 totally different threads going on here and I like the countryside one best

 

[peteheat]

I believe OFTEC is all of the registered members because without us it wouldn't exist, that said we must take some ownership of it by promoting the standards OFTEC stands to enforce by promoting OFTEC.

For example on this web site we can have a badge that says we are Gas safe (in my case RGII) hence promoting Gas Safe, when asked about the badge I did not see much response from the administrators.

If we don't play our part in educating the consumwer we are just making the job in the OFTEC office harder, we can cry and whinge or we can try to make the OFTEC brand as well known as Gas Safe.

Worst case the consumers will start asking "What's this OFTEC I kept seeing"?

 

[Whl4852]

I believe OFTEC is all of the registered members because without us it wouldn't exist, that said we must take some ownership of it by promoting the standards OFTEC stands to enforce by promoting OFTEC.

For example on this web site we can have a badge that says we are Gas safe (in my case RGII) hence promoting Gas Safe, when asked about the badge I did not see much response from the administrators.

If we don't play our part in educating the consumwer we are just making the job in the OFTEC office harder, we can cry and whinge or we can try to make the OFTEC brand as well known as Gas Safe.

Worst case the consumers will start asking "What's this OFTEC I kept seeing"?

Here here, I second that!

 

[peteheat]

Looks good on paper and I agree with what you are saying, but when the prospective customer is looking at an estimate from an oftec installer and somebody who isn't going to bother they'll expect it to work and one will be cheaper.

Now if oftec was going to be more proactive in weeding out the dangerous non registered people then all well and good. But they don't give a monkeys and that's official.

As I understand it the law is in place in the UK so the job falls to Building Control & maybe the Department of Environment to enforce them, consider yourselves very lucky in Ireland we have Building Control Departments in the local County Councils but nobody there to enforce anything except collect fees for building new houses and the laws / standards which are usually copy and paste of UK legislation for Part J etc weren't even updated to include oil.

We (OFTEC Members) can report bad workmanship etc but where will that get us? A bit like driving on the Motorway and calling the Police to report what appears to be a drunk driver speeding at 100 MPH, first question will be are you using a hands free kit? or how do you know it's 100 are you doing 95?

In my case the Council would have to search for a Building Control Officer as they don't know what they should be controlling (not joking) then of course the word would spread don't call him or your the Council may visit and you have to apply for retention for the extension you built (fees for the council).

What OFTEC could / should far as I know are doing is telling the Councils and Government agencies they have a system in place with proven competent trades persons throughout the UK and Ireland who can and will install the systems properly and there is no longer a need for the unregulated installers or turning a blind eye to poor quality oil installations.

Maybe we should be more pro-active in telling OFTEC what we want them to do, they appear to have responded very well to the boiler manufacturers (Founders?) where boiler passports are concerned.

As for competition if a consumer wants to have a boiler fitted and void a significant part of the warranty and have an oil tank badly installed which could void their insurance cover then they were never my type of customer to start with.

 

[jim1916woo]

I have just got a quot for the Training and assessment with oftec with manuals 1,2,3,4,& domestic heating guide Total of £872 +vat and after reading this is it a big con, but does anyone know were i can get these manuals on pdf cheers guys

 

[Dannypipe]

That's the going rate. The manuals come in A4 binders, and you can only get the updates in PDF format not the entire books.