Opinions on this : Vaillant Boiler Fitted with "Vaillant protection filter " on the flow

[LJD1010]

All feedback welcome !

Here are a few details .

1.New Ecotec Vaillant boiler fitted ."protection kit/filter " paid for to get 10 year Guarantee etc .
2.Vaillant filter fitted on flow for No reason . This was coming up to 2 years ago.
3.Install company then serviced it and failed to notice the mistake .
4.Install company say its nothing to worry about and they do it hundreds of time will no ill effects.
5.They also claim it will NOT affect the guarantee . Despite Vaillant fitting guides stating clearly it must only be fitted to return .
6.Vaillant have confirmed this .


It was not a cheap boiler install at all . The client paid good money in good faith to receive due diligence and the work to be carried out to manufactures specifications etc .

To date the Install company still say the guarantee of the boiler etc is good and no damage etc would happen .DESPITE the purpose of the filter to be the protection for the boiler not the whole system. Prime part. the heat exchanger .

I am "guiding" the client as I think as he paid the money to have the system fitted correctly .And during this time it would be hard to know what effect the issue has had on the boiler . I think they either need to put in writing his Boiler guarantee started the moment the filter was changed over . Or they exchange the heat exchanger etc .

As Vaillant have put it in writing that as they are aware of the situation there is no longer a guarantee in place form them as manufacturers .Unless that becomes an agreement between the Install /heating company and the client . And they honour the guarantee period themselves etc .



cheers

 

[SJB060685]

The filter should be on the return prevent fouled water from flow through the boiler. No good whatsoever on the flow.

 

[LJD1010]

Exactly ..But the Engineer stood in front of the customer and "Boasted" that he has done it hundreds of times and could be common practise in their company and no way would it be a issue and the filter is a "system " filter rather than just a boiler protection filter. Funny that Vaillant call it just that !!

 

[SJB060685]

Then this "Engineer" is an idiot and clearly doesn't understand the purpose of the filter. It's primary function is to protect the boiler heat exchanger, which is exactly the boiler manufacturers point. Secondly it should help cleanse the system.

 

[LJD1010]

Then this "Engineer" is an idiot and clearly doesn't understand the purpose of the filter. It's primary function is to protect the boiler heat exchanger, which is exactly the boiler manufacturers point. Secondly it should help cleanse the system.

THis.... The issue is the manner in which they think they are right . Next move is to see how they react to the Communication sent to us by Vaillant I really wish the client had paid by credit card . The filter was changed over yesterday and I await their next email to us !

 

[SJB060685]

The legal side of things I'm not too savvy on. Perhaps @king of pipes could help?

 

[LJD1010]

The legal side of things I'm not too savvy on. Perhaps @king of pipes could help?

legal side....Boiler must be fitted as specified by manufacturer ?? Vaillant clearly state "ON return" and this is to ensure 10 year guarantee etc .

 

[SJB060685]

legal side....Boiler must be fitted as specified by manufacturer ?? Vaillant clearly state "ON return" and this is to ensure 10 year guarantee etc .

Yes but I mean how you would approach the installing firm legally. It's not something I'm familiar with and I believe the person I tagged above has a wife in legal. With regards to the engineer they have installed a system non compliant with MI's, this has invalidated the warranty but I couldn't advise how best to approach them.

 

[LJD1010]

Yes but I mean how you would approach the installing firm legally. It's not something I'm familiar with and I believe the person I tagged above has a wife in legal. With regards to the engineer they have installed a system non compliant with MI's, this has invalidated the warranty but I couldn't advise how best to approach them.

cheers

 

[king of pipes]

The legal side of things I'm not too savvy on. Perhaps @king of pipes could help?

The boiler and it's filter must be fitted as the manufacturers instructions any deviation from these instructions will effect the boiler warranty , Valliant are usually quite fair and I have seen them stand by poor installs and swap a blocked heat exchanger, but this happened within the first year of a install and the faults needed to be rectified for the warranty to continue to be valid, I would agree with the above engineers the filter should always be on the return to protect the boiler from any debris that may be left in the system, the filter has been changed over I believe and hopefully a chemical treatment added, I would check the filter regularly for any build up on its magnet and test for the correct pH level in the system water fernox do a dip test test kit the result should be between 6.5 - 8.5 and a suitable corrosion inhibitor added . Kop

 

[LJD1010]

With luck the filter was checked during its last service and when it was swapped over .Then any chemicals added as necessary .


We are going to hound the heating company to confirm in writing they installed it incorrectly etc and what will happen to the clients guarantee due to it been in place for 2 years . The worst thing is when these guys stand there in front of clients and just LIE and try to make their mistake sound "of no concern"

 

[gmartine]

As a representive you need to ensure the best possible outcome and I seriously doubt because it hasn't worked thus far that hounding them to admit their guilt will change their attitude or minds.

Write a legal letter to them giving them 28 days to power flush the system and correctly install the system to MI if not threaten to get it done independently and sue them for the cost and inconvenience. Explore the idea (perhaps with Vaillant) of transferring a warranty to another company, it maybe once the system is cleaned and corrected the company you choose to do the work maybe able to offer your client some cover.

 

[Chuck]

Is the installer approved/accredited by Vaillant?

 

[LJD1010]

Is the installer approved/accredited by Vaillant?

Very much so....This is one Major LONDON heating/plumbing company .

 

[Chuck]

Very much so....This is one Major LONDON heating/plumbing company .

In my opinion, you are going about this in the wrong way. Manufacturers' warranties are difficult or impossible for the end-user to enforce because they have no contract with the manufacturer. The contract is between the installer who sold the installation and included the 10-year warranty as a 'representation' and your client who presumably considered it to be an essential part of the contract.

The situation as I understand it is that your client bought a Vaillant boiler in good faith from a Valliant-approved installer. The installer has assured your client that the installation is sound and the 10-year guarantee is valid. So, if your client's boiler packs up he calls the installer and tells them to arrange for it to be fixed it free either under the Vaillant warranty or at their own expense if Vaillant don't feel like paying. Enforcement is via a Small Claims Court action for breach of contract.

Since replacing a heat exchanger is a few hundred quid there's no point in wasting a lot of time and/or money arguing with the installer unless the boiler does actually pack up and they do refuse to honour the warranty.

Now, my opinion is free and worth every penny. If you want an opinion you can rely on you'll need to employe your own lawyer. And I bet they'll charge you more for their opinion than replacing a HX will cost!

 

[LJD1010]

In my opinion, you are going about this in the wrong way. Manufacturers' warranties are difficult or impossible for the end-user to enforce because they have no contract with the manufacturer. The contract is between the installer who sold the installation and included the 10-year warranty as a 'representation' and your client who presumably considered it to be an essential part of the contract.

The situation as I understand it is that your client bought a Vaillant boiler in good faith from a Valliant-approved installer. The installer has assured your client that the installation is sound and the 10-year guarantee is valid. So, if your client's boiler packs up he calls the installer and tells them to arrange for it to be fixed it free either under the Vaillant warranty or at their own expense if Vaillant don't feel like paying. Enforcement is via a Small Claims Court action for breach of contract.

Since replacing a heat exchanger is a few hundred quid there's no point in wasting a lot of time and/or money arguing with the installer unless the boiler does actually pack up and they do refuse to honour the warranty.

Now, my opinion is free and worth every penny. If you want an opinion you can rely on you'll need to employeat

 

[LJD1010]

I agree ! But the question of when the warranty should start is a issue .If it was almost 2 years ago .Then the client lost the full benefits of the protection during that time .Which means he has 8 years "protected" left that he paid 10 years for. I think he should be offered 10 years from last week as a act of good faith in their own belief that the filter works both ways happily and they do it all the time .

 

[Chuck]

I think he should be offered 10 years from last week as a act of good faith in their own belief that the filter works both ways happily and they do it all the time .

No. Your 'client' paid for a warranty to run for 10 years from the date of purchase. If there were warranty claims refused in the first two years due to incorrect installation the installer should cover them. If there were no problems in the first two years the client got what they paid for, i.e. a working boiler and no repair costs.

(The normally remedy for breach of contract is, as far as possible, to put the parties involved into the position they would have been in if the contract had been adhered to.)

 

[LJD1010]

No. Your 'client' paid for a warranty to run for 10 years from the date of purchase. If there were warranty claims refused in the first two years due to incorrect installation the installer should cover them. If there were no problems in the first two years the client got what they paid for, i.e. a working boiler and no repair costs.

(The normally remedy for breach of contract is, as far as possible, to put the parties involved in the same position they would have been in if the contract had been adhered to.)

SO the client paid for 10 years warrantee and a system to be fitted correctly .It was not .Therefore who can tell what state the internals are of the heat exchanger are in ? I would guess not as good as if it had been protected properly ? So its possible excess wear and tear might have happened. If the boiler conks out soon lets say after another 8.5 years .He is NOT covered . And part of the reason it may not work is the excess build up etc the Heat exchanger might have received in the almost last 2 years ? And a invoice was sent for the work correcting it ......We await the response questioning this . But the history of this company "methods" has always been in discussion on forums etc .

 

[LJD1010]

I am working from Vaillants own words

 

[LJD1010]

And Vaillant response :"

Please see below diagram taken from the Vaillant boiler Protection Kit instructions which clearly states to ensure arrow on manifold matches heating return flow direction.

I have previously checked with the Boiler Protection Kit Porduct Manager who has advised me that the Vaillant Boiler Protection kit can only be fitted to the boiler return not the boiler flow.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

And ??? get the client to get it in writing from the company who supplied the boiler if vaillant refuse warranty there liable

Or just move on not much you can do / what are you hoping to get for the customer?

 

[John.g]

Wonder how much of a difference does it really make (installed on the flow), on a new install probably none whatever about just a boiler renewal.

 

[LJD1010]

Wonder how much of a difference does it really make (installed on the flow), on a new install probably none whatever about just a boiler renewal.

ON a new install . it means the brand new stainless steel heat exchanger is been protected as much as possible from anything within the pipes and rads etc . Before the rads and pipes its cleaning out all that stuff that has also been through the boiler .And its just wrong that people trained and charging a fortune cannot just do the right job in the first place.

 

[SJB060685]

Wonder how much of a difference does it really make (installed on the flow), on a new install probably none whatever about just a boiler renewal.

On a new install and properly treated system you shouldn't technically have to worry. However most new boilers are swaps/upgrades, this poses a big problem when retrofitting to old systems that are fouled. Remember gas boilers typically have heat exchangers made of either aluminium or stainless steel. An aluminium heat exchanger exposed to a fouled system is not a good idea.

 

[king of pipes]

I agree ! But the question of when the warranty should start is a issue .If it was almost 2 years ago .Then the client lost the full benefits of the protection during that time .Which means he has 8 years "protected" left that he paid 10 years for. I think he should be offered 10 years from last week as a act of good faith in their own belief that the filter works both ways happily and they do it all the time .

That will never happen I'm afraid he's had 2 years with any luck he will still be covered for the remaining 8 providing it's serviced and maintained correctly .

 

[LJD1010]

On a new install and properly treated system you shouldn't technically have to worry. However most new boilers are swaps/upgrades, this poses a big problem when retrofitting to old systems that are fouled. Remember gas boilers typically have heat exchangers made of either aluminium or stainless steel. An aluminium heat exchanger exposed to a fouled system is not a good idea.

This.... The pipe work and rads are old .ONly the boiler and its protection filter was new . The system was flushed and chemicals added .

That will never happen I'm afraid he's had 2 years with any luck he will still be covered for the remaining 8 providing it's serviced and maintained correctly .

NOT according to vaillant .If they had been called out a year after the original install .Vaillant say they would not allow the warrantee due to the boiler not been correctly fitted .Guys...its clearly stated that unless the filter is fitted correctly NO warrantee will be in place .why is this issue still been debated .The facts have been presented . He has had 2 years use .But unknown wear and tear that he paid NOT to have .

 

[ShaunCorbs]

This.... The pipe work and rads are old .ONly the boiler and its protection filter was new . The system was flushed and chemicals added .

NOT according to vaillant .If they had been called out a year after the original install .Vaillant say they would not allow the warrantee due to the boiler not been correctly fitted .Guys...its clearly stated that unless the filter is fitted correctly NO warrantee will be in place .why is this issue still been debated .The facts have been presented . He has had 2 years use .But unknown wear and tear that he paid NOT to have .

You said the filter has been moved to the return correct ?

Also vaillant won’t warranty anything if the system water is bad / not cleaned to vdi standards

 

[SJB060685]

You said the filter has been moved to the return correct ?

Also vaillant won’t warranty anything if the system water is bad / not cleaned to vdi standards

Vaillant require vdi do they mate?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Vaillant require vdi do they mate?

Yep but they do list a range (ph) they require

 

[LJD1010]

You said the filter has been moved to the return correct ?

Also vaillant won’t warranty anything if the system water is bad / not cleaned to vdi standards

Yes.. last Saturday almost 2 years after been fitted . And not noticed by them during service etc . Which also includes the filter not just the boiler (all within their terms )

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes.. last Saturday almost 2 years after been fitted . And not noticed by them during service etc . Which also includes the filter not just the boiler (all within their terms )

So now complies with vaillant so now has warranty

 

[LJD1010]

So now complies with vaillant so now has warranty

NO.... As vaillant know the filter was not fitted correctly . And have noted it in their records As they cannot be sure of any damage or wear . Imagine a car company had a owner who drained the original oil from their new car on day one and put nasty inferior wrong spec oil in for 2 years . And then the owner says, "well if i put the right stuff in ,does the warrantee still hold" ? !!!! NO WAY it would . Warrantees stipulate terms and conditions for a given reason . And the so called "engineer " was so bold to say he does it often and so do many others within the "company ". I always think , those people that see it differently would soon change tunes if it was their money spent in good faith !

 

[ShaunCorbs]

NO.... As vaillant know the filter was not fitted correctly . And have noted it in their records As they cannot be sure of any damage or wear . Imagine a car company had a owner who drained the original oil from their new car on day one and put nasty inferior wrong spec oil in for 2 years . And then the owner says, "well if i put the right stuff in ,does the warrantee still hold" ? !!!! NO WAY it would . Warrantees stipulate terms and conditions for a given reason . And the so called "engineer " was so bold to say he does it often and so do many others within the "company ". I always think , those people that see it differently would soon change tunes if it was their money spent in good faith !

Have you confirmed that the warranty is void now as vaillant confirmed to me once I swapped over the filter to the return (I took over a service which the boiler was installed via a nationwide group and filter on the return due to no space on the return) the warranty is now reinstated aslong as the system is clean which is should be anyway as it needs to be cleaned before the new boiler is installed

Heating water is a lot different to oil aslong as it’s clean doesn’t matter if it’s 10 years old water put back in

 

[king of pipes]

I have also put right a Valliant pure on a dirty poorly installed system they don't get much worse than this it didn't even have a filter! Untill I put one on, It was that bad Gas Safe got involved the installer was made to pay back the money for the install Valliant changed the heat exchanger I sorted the other work out , this was documented in 2017 and all was good still working to this day I service it ever year now warranty runs out this year, put some pictures up let's see how it looks ? . Kop