Malfunctioning pipe freezer

[WaterTight]

I bought a Rothenberger electronic pipe freezer. Used it without problems 25 or so times. Then on a job it wouldn't freeze. Took home, tested, not working. By this point, owned it about 4 or 5 months. My friend had bought one a month or two ago and it didn't work from the off, he returned it for a refund.

Took back to Williams (merchant) expecting to get refund. They said because it was used and had been bought a few months back they would have to send it to rothenberger to be serviced. Few weeks later I'm told it's coolant was low and has been topped up and is now working and ready for collection.

Thing is, this is not a drill or a jigsaw. If this machine develops a fault mid-operation the ramifications are more serious.

I have looked everywhere online and cannot find an online copy of instruction manual (I have lost mine) but don't remember it mentioning that it would need servicing. Incidentally there is now no mention of this product on any rothernberger site. Only on third parties offering it for sale.

When I go to collect it I will have a few questions:

Does it say in instructions that it needs servicing?

Am I safe from the event of it's coolant running low in the middle of a freeze on a cut live pipe?

Will servicing remain free of charge after the warranty period is over?

If the answer is no to some/all of those questions do you think I've grounds to request a refund under goods not being fit for purpose? Or am I stuck with an item which may now work but I may have lost confidence in?

I know that in 99% of situations you can safely test whether pipe is frozen before cutting/undoing fittings. But what happens when you have cut and undone if it malfunctions then?

 

[Dannypipe]

Sorry I can't help you on the majority of your questions. All I can add is that if it does fail you mid freeze, I would imagine it's very poor luck, and it would be more likely that it wouldn't have frozen the pipe in the first place.

More importantly I should add that I was told with my freeze machine (Freeze Master not Rothenburg) that I should switch it on every month or so and let the heads get cold. Just to keep the seals from leaking the gas....I don't know why this is needed, but from what you've just told me, perhaps it was good advice.

 

[WaterTight]

Cheers for reply Danny. Well my questions are ones I intend to put to the guy in the merchants rather than anyone here, although if someone has a copy of the MI's I'd be chuffed.

I'm experienced in poor luck and dare say some more will come my way.

I've believe in Trades Descriptions Act items sold must be fit for purpose.

As I said I can't find my manual but I did find that on toolstop.co.uk (who were offering it for sale - but perhaps tellingly no longer) an admin responded to a question by saying "I’ve spoken to Rothenberger and
..the unit is completely maintenance free so needs no servicing or calibration."

I just don't see how it can be fit for purpose if it turns out it does need servicing. But I wonder if I've a leg to stand on.

 

[quality]

WT its called refrigerant not coolant its a bit similar to a sealed heating system as it gets hot the pressure goes up as it cools the pressure goes down and if it needs topping up it has got a leak.

I have posted here before about the nonsense of running it regular that keeps it working ok.

I have repaired loads of these my own included.

Find a decent local refrigeration guy he will sort you out a lot cheaper than where you have tried.

ps. where are you based

 

[WaterTight]

And getting back to what you said, it seems to me that it would spend more time maintaning a frozen pipe then it would getting a pipe frozen. And so wouldn't it infact be more likely that it runs out of coolant mid-freeze? Unless once frozen it doesn't use much...

 

[WaterTight]

quality I didn't pay anything. It was sent back to rothernberger. The guy phoned me and said it's "coolant" which he laughed and said they told him was simply water had got low.

 

[WaterTight]

All I really want to know is if I can claim it's not fit for purpose given what has occured and therefore claim a refund. They claimed I had to accept a service of it and now they say it's fixed. But I've lost confidence in it.

 

[quality]

quality I didn't pay anything. It was sent back to rothernberger. The guy phoned me and said it's "coolant" which he laughed and said they told him was simply water had got low.

well I do suppose he has not got a clue or he really meant the pipe you was trying to freeze was low of water

 

[WHPES]

For pipe freezers out of warranty, phone round your local refrigeration engineers as the machinery is straightforward to them and they can service and re-gas it for a fraction of the cost of sending it to the manufacturers. Arctic were going to charge me £200. It cost £40 done locally.

 

[Guest123]

All I really want to know is if I can claim it's not fit for purpose given what has occured and therefore claim a refund. They claimed I had to accept a service of it and now they say it's fixed. But I've lost confidence in it.

I'd contact your local Trading Standards office. I personally think you could have a claim, but better to talk to experts not another plumber. My mate uses the Freezemaster 290D and never had any problems. He does use it once a month as per manufacturers spec. and they have a PDF of their instructions to down load. I'm getting one of these and well I'm very dissapointed with the quality of Rothenberger tools these days.
Perhaps you should carry a spray can of freeze for emergencies in case your machine chucks it half way through the job?

 

[WaterTight]

Problem is first thing you're going to know if an ice plug thaws due to a fault (coolant running low or other) during a freeze is thunk-woosh. If it occurs when you're next to it, on an open pipe (not one with a rad valve attatched) and you have a push-fit stop end in your pocket you'll get away it. Otherwise you're boned.

I've managed to get them to email me the MI's. It refers to servicing (the guy in the merchants said he reckoned they've added it now but there was no mention in original instructions - this is hearsay though I've lost my copy and he didn't have one) but no mention is made of servicing being needed every 4 or 5 months because of "coolant running low." The problem with my machine I've been told is precisely that - that every 4 or 5 months it needs to have water topped up in it. It doesn't say this even in the new instructions.

I think I'm going to contact them direct and ask whether a) I can have a refund given that this has not been made clear as the unit was originally sold as a stand-alone machine not needing servicing or, failing that b) servicing of this nature will remain free of charge even after the warranty expires.

I want a yes to one of those or I won't be happy. If I only get a yes to the second one I'll just have to only use it to freeze, cut, put on full-bore isolation and then thaw. Otherwise I'll spend my time paranoid.

 

[WaterTight]

But it's a shame if that turns out to be the case because I wouldn't have spent £500 on something a can of freeze spray could do. I think the whole selling point, the whole reason it's sold for use instead of the spray cans is you can leave it on, freezing away, no time limit. If - without any warning light or noise - at some point in the next 4 or 5 months it will no longer have enough coolant to continue to freeze....well, what's the point in the machine? And therefore, maybe grounds for it not being "fit for purpose"

 

[Rainbow74]

Hi, happy to answer questions on this machine - if anyone has any.
It's a reliable unit, and like a car needs maintenance - The resovoir sometimes needs topping up, small amounts water I believe after a period of time will evaporate somehow through the silcone tube.
Basically if the machine won't drop below -14C - then it's likely you have an air lock. - contact me on how to clear this simple problem.
Thanks,
Rainbow74

 

[lame plumber]

it's a rather old thread now rainbow, probably sorted

 

[Rainbow74]

lol, yeah - just new to this site, thanks