Making the Perfect End Feed Solder Joint

[tuttogallo]

I prefer using end feed type copper fittings and I have had a good success rate.

However, I usually get an ugly drip of solder. Could anyone advise how I could avoid that and make a really neat job?. I know I am being a bit OCD about this, but that's just me!

thanks

tuttogallo

 

[SimonG]

Use less solder.

 

[Deleted member 25704]

I have to admit, that I had been soldering about 15 years or so before I learned how to do it properly. I also have to thank South West Water for a small booklet they produced because the quality of soldering was considered by them as poor throughout the plumbing industry region.

You will need a wet cloth and a dry cloth.

1. Clean both copper pipe and fittings with dry non-metalic cloth
2. Apply flux sparingly to male surfaces of pipe only and do not apply flux to fitting (this is especially important for gas, because excess is pushed out externally).

3. Locate pipework into fitting, twist and remove any excess flux from the fittings with a dry cloth (externally).

4. Prepare to solder, with lead free solder in one hand, and blow lamp in other - apply heat until the fitting starts to sweat. Apply solder to back or rear of fitting (if vertical) and observe as the solder runs around to the front - immediately remove solder and heat.
5. Allow to cool, and remove residual flux with wet cloth. Polish with non-metalic cloth to shiny finish.

Remember the purpose of flux is to clean and allow the solder to run, so if you do not remove excess flux with a dry cloth before soldering, then vertical soldering is difficult because the solder runs out of the fitting and down the pipe following the flow of flux.

Follow the dry and wet cloth routine and you will have perfect joints, less risk of leaks, more money and you have conserved rare and precious metals. Not only that, you work will be beautiful and fill you with a sense of pride that money just can't buy - welcome to your vocation!

Read more: http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-forum/39491-neat-soldering-how.html#ixzz2Cxv7Mrqq

 

[tuttogallo]

Thank you Clanger for a most complete reply. I shall certainly be doing that.

I noticed a couple of things:
- no mention of wire woool. That's good. I hate the stuff!
- I will check to see if the solder that I am using is lead free

I assume that when people talk about the joint "sweating", they mean the melting of the flux.

When I suceed with this, I will check that my spirits have been suitably uplifted! I will be very proud!

Thanks again

tuttogallo

 

[nicro3]

Tin the copper pipe! That's the right way all sizes you will never go wrong.

 

[Backboiler]

Tin the copper pipe! That's the right way all sizes you will never go wrong.

Who has the time to "tin" coper pipe ends???

 

[nicro3]

I repeat tin the copper pipe and you will never have a leak, what ever the size. If you are in a hurry then dont it will probably be ok.

 

[tuttogallo]

Hi nicro3

I undertand the concept. Please could you explain how I would do this practically?

I can see myself getting a very ragged and uneven spread of the solder on the end of the pipe and then not be able to assemble the join!

thanks

tuttogallo

 

[Backboiler]

I repeat tin the copper pipe and you will never have a leak, what ever the size. If you are in a hurry then dont it will probably be ok.

Any plumber who wants to make a good living hasn't got time to dilly around pre-tinning their joints! I aim for efficiency and detest ugly snot joints. I do exactly as Clanger suggests in a previous post. It's quick, neat and enables me to blow twice as many joints as you per hour

 

[Best]

To tin a pipe, just clean & flux it, then heat it & dab solder wire till it starts melting & then start wiping it on with a rag & wipe excess off. There shouldn't be any lumps if you wipe it fully.

 

[tipintim]

Gob smacked! Wipe the joint after you solder!You cant make an omlett without breaking eggs.The only time you need to tin is when you do a taff joint, and thats gone out of the window. Or am I old?

 

[nicro3]

Hard to put into print, clean and flux pipe, heat pipe until solder runs wipe with rag old skool.

 

[tuttogallo]

After the pre tinned pipe has been asssembled into the fitting, is extra solder needed, or will the tinning be enough?

thanks

Tuttogallo

 

[Best]

Any plumber who wants to make a good living hasn't got time to dilly around pre-tinning their joints! I aim for efficiency and detest ugly snot joints. I do exactly as Clanger suggests in a previous post. It's quick, neat and enables me to blow twice as many joints as you per hour

He is right, though, - it does help make a good joint because, once tinned the pipe can't tarnish. Only really handy to do if, for example you had a pipe end sticking through a wall, which could only be joined at a later date & weather or whatever would tarnish it. Very advisable to tin pipes that need a lead joint done to a lead pipe.

 

[Backboiler]

After the pre tinned pipe has been asssembled into the fitting, is extra solder needed, or will the tinning be enough?

thanks

Tuttogallo

Forget it Tuggs, your mates will laugh at you

 

[Best]

After the pre tinned pipe has been asssembled into the fitting, is extra solder needed, or will the tinning be enough?

thanks

Tuttogallo

The tinning will be a very thin "spray paint" coat, so you still need to apply solder to an end feed.

 

[zzzjim]

Using pre tinned stuff , wont your mates accuse you of re-cycling old !

 

[nicro3]

This is the way I was taught to solder end feed fittings all sizes over 38 years ago by the college I attended, as by the plumbers I trained with. Obviously in the years I have worked in the industry rarely have I tinned pipe to solder end feed. With the exception of 54mm and 67mm end feed which to be safe should be tinned

 

[zzzjim]

Cheers , Nicro3 skill of moving hot solder about without flicking in eyes is useful ,

( H & f S -- probably won't agree )

Makes lots of sense for big joints , new lead free stuff is naff at wetting !

( takes me back to 80-90s --Pipe master - DIY 15mm soldering tool )

 

[nicro3]

Any plumber who wants to make a good living hasn't got time to dilly around pre-tinning their joints! I aim for efficiency and detest ugly snot joints. I do exactly as Clanger suggests in a previous post. It's quick, neat and enables me to blow twice as many joints as you per hour

Did not know we were racing, on your marks , set and go.

 

[Skelly87]

I prefer using end feed type copper fittings and I have had a good success rate.

However, I usually get an ugly drip of solder. Could anyone advise how I could avoid that and make a really neat job?. I know I am being a bit OCD about this, but that's just me!

thanks

tuttogallo

If pipe is to be left in its original state then use less solder to avoid drips. If pipework is being painted then i use my flux brush and wipe the solder drip away before it cools. Wash the flux off after though

 

[aaronsmith]

Hard to put into print, clean and flux pipe, heat pipe until solder runs wipe with rag old skool.

i do every joint like this,i was taught this way and will continue to do so,prob why am skint!

 

[nicro3]

i do every joint like this,i was taught this way and will continue to do so,prob why am skint!

Join the club, not saying do all the time, but for trainee's learn the right (may be slower) way.

 

[AWheating]

the best tip i can give to inexperienced people is use less.............. flux,solder and heat.

 

[dancinplumba]

the best tip i can give to inexperienced people is use less.............. flux,solder and heat.

tip of the century this is

 

[Blumper]

...tuttogallo.....do you really need to check whether your solder contains lead...??
In spite of that, EVERY plumber at the start puts in too much solder, the natural inclination is to believe that more solder= stronger/better joinst.....which is not true.....do yourself a favour and practice on some short pieces that you can test on a little rig in your own time to help convince yourself, and get in the habit of watching for that little slither of silver that you can see filling the tiny slip between the pipe and fitting, that's when you stop feeding the solder.....you don't need to 'fill' the triangle between the fitting edge and pipe to make it seal......try a few and test them and then seperate them, you'll see both surfaces are completely covered in solder....but it is a leap of faith to be confident in them but practice makes perfect..

 

[Blumper]

...error in the above, most plumbers STILL put too much solder in....but are creative in pipe support

 

[Archy Styrigg]

I have to admit, that I had been soldering about 15 years or so before I learned how to do it properly. I also have to thank South West Water for a small booklet they produced because the quality of soldering was considered by them as poor throughout the plumbing industry region.

You will need a wet cloth and a dry cloth.

1. Clean both copper pipe and fittings with dry non-metalic cloth
2. Apply flux sparingly to male surfaces of pipe only and do not apply flux to fitting (this is especially important for gas, because excess is pushed out externally).

3. Locate pipework into fitting, twist and remove any excess flux from the fittings with a dry cloth (externally).

4. Prepare to solder, with lead free solder in one hand, and blow lamp in other - apply heat until the fitting starts to sweat. Apply solder to back or rear of fitting (if vertical) and observe as the solder runs around to the front - immediately remove solder and heat.
5. Allow to cool, and remove residual flux with wet cloth. Polish with non-metalic cloth to shiny finish.

Remember the purpose of flux is to clean and allow the solder to run, so if you do not remove excess flux with a dry cloth before soldering, then vertical soldering is difficult because the solder runs out of the fitting and down the pipe following the flow of flux.

Follow the dry and wet cloth routine and you will have perfect joints, less risk of leaks, more money and you have conserved rare and precious metals. Not only that, you work will be beautiful and fill you with a sense of pride that money just can't buy - welcome to your vocation!

Read more: http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/plumbing-forum/39491-neat-soldering-how.html#ixzz2Cxv7Mrqq

Fanatastic advice! Thanks.

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

just flux it,holding the lamp in the edge of the flame so it curls around the fitting,as the flux melts apply your solder,wipe it neat with a bit of wool or bog paper job done

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

...error in the above, most plumbers STILL put too much solder in....but are creative in pipe supportView attachment 9103

thats rubbish soldering

 

[Gray0689]

...error in the above, most plumbers STILL put too much solder in....but are creative in pipe supportView attachment 9103

That's rubbish soldering and looks even worse plumbing but see that you mean about the solder support lol

 

[Archy Styrigg]

What do mean by a dry cloth and wet cloth?

 

[Archy Styrigg]

...error in the above, most plumbers STILL put too much solder in....but are creative in pipe supportView attachment 9103

What's with the dubious looking cable?

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

What's with the dubious looking cable?

tv probably,wont be sky they just chuck them over the roof,you know what sparks are like though archey* wink*nicking all the best routes wrapping 2.5 t+e around our 22mm F+R who would have thought a pipe running at 80 degrees would melt a cable and cause a bit of a mess?:smartass2:

 

[Blumper]

...twas a recent job, couple had pipework re-routed round attic sides ready for conversion...local 'handyman' did it......about 4 kilo's of solder I reckon AND it had no less than three leaks...never seen so many couplings used before......crap job in every respect, but proves the point that visible solder and snots does not mean a solid joint....