Level 3 plumbing and gas courses...

[basildog]

You have to look at the basics here really ?
What are the entry requirements on to these courses ?
Yes you have got it they are not the type of people who are in line for degree level that is for sure ,It is sad but true that these days everyone has to have some nonsensical title they are no longer plumbers but engineers ,good old labour and it`s policy of equality and how 50 % of the school leavers should be going to university ?????
90% of the population is thick and out of the other 10 % 90% of them have no common sense so we are doomed !!!!

 

[chris watkins]

Kay101, Thanks very much for the "apprenticeship will change" link, very helpful & that is genuine !
I would have had to search for that tomorrow, I have to report back to my company on funding for them in the utilities field, as they have just spent around £1M for 13 of them & received nothing.

So you think I am rude then, well not my intention but often when you have a passion & an understand of all sides of a subject, when you have seen schemes, initiatives & qualifications etc come & go it is difficult not to be forthright in your augment.
Believe you me if it was my intention to be rude you would know about it, comes from working on building sites.

You can argue all you like, you can defend government policy, FE colleges & vocational / post school education of plumbing & apprenticeships, until the cows come home but it does not alter some indisputable trues.
1. Plumbing like most complex craft skills can only be effectively obtained via working on-site & while learning at a training centre at the same time, over a period of around 3-4 years. If you have been through the process you would understand what centuries of plumbers have understood, thats why I asked.
2. Teaching plumbing at anything over level 1 in a college & then expecting students to repeat the process if they are lucky enough to get an Job (or apprenticeship) is just not going to happen, would you want to do that ? If you have learnt plumbing theory why would you do it again because some at a college said it wasn't "fully alined" & is your employer going to wear loosing you for a day to do that.?
3. If you except point 1. Apprenticeships are the best way to learn plumbing, then why would we as tax payers want to support teaching young people something at college that they will not get employment at, what a waste of money but more important their young lives !!!!
Why would we not want to support small companies, who make up the vast amount of the building industry in filling vacancy for real jobs at the time they are needed.

An ideal world? more like an understanding of what is required to still have a industry fit for the future changes, in a world without a lot of tax money to spend.

I think that will be my last words on it Kay.

 

[wetdrip]

who are the exam setters?

I contacted C&G. It was their reply I pasted on this thread.

 

[wetdrip]

I, like many parents have been in a situation where we take a great interest in just what level of skill, knowledge and experience our kids will come away with when doing the level2 course, and I can assure you that the level of commitment by certain colleges toward their student’s progress will and does vary.

I can painfully remember one occasion where my nipper came home despondent as there had been a gas leakage on one of the main pipes in the classes working environment/room.

The college head came down and informed the whole class that no pupil in that class would be put forward for employment if an employer did contact that college looking for a potential apprentice to employ…that was week one of the course.
One or two students wanted to quit the course there and then. The same pipe leaked again and the students were blamed.
They were informed that the CCTV would be looked at and the culprit apprehended. No-one was ever apprehended. Enough said.
Imagine being stuck in that class!

Level2’s good for confidence building, where students can grasp the very basics: Lead work, tooling, soldering and basic bends, but, it’s no good without experience

Having looked at the Level3 book, I like it, as it shows a whole new aspect of just what’s required in the real world in terms of systems and system design etc. something that isn’t touched in Level2.

Can a person go straight to, or be allowed to go to level 3 without first doing level 2; IMHO, if and only if they’ve gained good hands-on practical experience working with a decent engineer.
Think Chris hit the nail on the head, when he used the word passion.

A passion needs to be cultivated in any kid looking to forward their vocation.
Perhaps too many kids just see it as a means to a wage at the end of the week, and I’m glad I’m not a kid growing up in today’s society.

There was a recent post on here placed by a guest. The guest asked why his taps (ceramic discs) just wouldn’t stop dripping. Some replied: change the cartridge and be done, but TAMZ replied: check your water pressure as it may be low and ceramics need more pressure to close properly. Experience at its best, which very few, if any, class only apprentices would have known about.

 

[newcastle phill]

My college from a while ago stated no level 3 unless level 2 completed 1st.
They said as its modular it was imposible for city and guilds to issue cert for full 3 without full 2.
They said cg check on walled garden.
So although it may well be possible to sign up you cant complete the full qual until done in sequence.

 

[wetdrip]

My college from a while ago stated no level 3 unless level 2 completed 1st.
They said as its modular it was imposible for city and guilds to issue cert for full 3 without full 2.
They said cg check on walled garden.
So although it may well be possible to sign up you cant complete the full qual until done in sequence.

Hi Phil, here's the actaul reply recieved from C & G.
Dear Paul

Thank you for contacting City & Guilds Customer Services .

"If the individual is a competent level 3 candidate then it is possible. This would be the decision making of the college or training centre that one applies to as they will all have their measure of determining whether they can place a learner on a level 3."

Like they say, it's down to the college.
Colleges looking to make more money perhaps...don't know.
C & G seem to be okay with it, according to their reply anyway?

 

[Jules]

There was a recent post on here placed by a guest. The guest asked why his taps (ceramic discs) just wouldn’t stop dripping. Some replied: change the cartridge and be done, but TAMZ replied: check your water pressure as it may be low and ceramics need more pressure to close properly. Experience at its best, which very few, if any, class only apprentices would have known about.[/QUOTE]

I've only done the 6035 Level 2, and I knew this - does this mean the course is OK after all, or am I just a genius, lol - !?
PS - Went to a house today where toilet draining away very slowly. Homeserve had jetted the drains (twice, a month apart), and informed the lady of the house she needed a plumber to unbox and dismantle the internal soil pipe "as it must be blocked somewhere". Subsequent plumber agreed and quoted her £850. Next plumber changed the flush valve (...?.)
I changed the AAV in the loft - job done. I wonder if the 4 previous plumbers did the 6035 or the 6189, ......hmmmm...interesting.....???

 

[chris watkins]

As we keep on saying time and again Jules, a piece of paper, does not a plumber make !!!!

It does help though, combine this with we never stop learning, (I didn't know that about ceramic discs) & experience over time & you will be getting close to what is required.

(BTW My monies on the 6035 LOL) :santa3:

 

[Jules]

As we keep on saying time and again Jules, a piece of paper, does not a plumber make !!!!

It does help though, combine this with we never stop learning, (I didn't know that about ceramic discs) & experience over time & you will be getting close to what is required.

(BTW My monies on the 6035 LOL) :santa3:

I agree, but it makes me cross that little old ladies have to part with a month's pension just to find out that the piece of paper may as well have been used to wipe their backside. :32:

 

[basildog]

There was a recent post on here placed by a guest. The guest asked why his taps (ceramic discs) just wouldn’t stop dripping. Some replied: change the cartridge and be done, but TAMZ replied: check your water pressure as it may be low and ceramics need more pressure to close properly. Experience at its best, which very few, if any, class only apprentices would have known about.

I've only done the 6035 Level 2, and I knew this - does this mean the course is OK after all, or am I just a genius, lol - !?
PS - Went to a house today where toilet draining away very slowly. Homeserve had jetted the drains (twice, a month apart), and informed the lady of the house she needed a plumber to unbox and dismantle the internal soil pipe "as it must be blocked somewhere". Subsequent plumber agreed and quoted her £850. Next plumber changed the flush valve (...?.)
I changed the AAV in the loft - job done. I wonder if the 4 previous plumbers did the 6035 or the 6189, ......hmmmm...interesting.....???[/QUOTE]

Oh to be young again !
AAV to me I always think of an automatic air vent !
Unless they say Durgo then I get it !!!!!! Duh time to have a nap I think ?