FLUX in new system install - how to get rid

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James Rose

A full system install in a new build (4 weeks ago) and we are still getting turquoise flux in the tap filters etc....
how long does it take to get rid of this stuff? shouldn't the plumber get rid of this before he installs taps / showers etc.....
 
Needs to be flushed out with water. Plumber should of done it, but no regulations on it. Try both taps open on bath for 10-15 minutes. hopefully this will get rid.
 
As above, no reg on it, usually running the taps for a while will do the job, nothing else the plumber could have done, but run taps.
 
"The Byelaws state that every water system shall be flushed out before it is used.

This means every new installation, alteration, extension or any maintenance to existing installations is required to be thoroughly flushed to remove debris."

the quote above is taken from the Water Bye-Laws, so it is covered in the Regs, there is no way a properly fitted system still has flux in it after 4 weeks, get the plumber back to check it out, there was a very severe case a right few yrs ago where a plumbing contractor went out of business, granted the job was a biggie (hospital or care home etc) when the plumbers were dipping the pipe ends in the flux for speed/laziness, and the whole lot had to be ripped out and changed b another contractor
 
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I had this a few weeks ago and it wasn't due to flux ( I had used mapress).
It was due to an old main run in copper and the extra flow had caused the lining of the walls to break away. Cleared after about an hour of flushing and hasn't comeback since
 
James Rose, Would this turquoise looking stuff in the filters be little solid bits?

If so it is most likely to be insulation from the cylinder (if indeed you have one). This very often happens
when fitting an immersion heater without making sure bits dont drop in when cleaning the seating.

If that is the case then it is just a case of clearing the filters till the problem stops.

Worst case is if there are large pieces which can catch in isolating valves or narrow flexi pipes.
 
Halesowen1 said:
Kirkgas how do you flush out the hot and cold after fitting a new boiler or piping a bathroom??
Click to expand...

before any showers or fittings are fitted a temp connection should be made and the water flushed through full bore, TBH on a properly fitted system the flux should be minimal, however i have seen people putting flux on the pipe with a shovel, then half filling the fittingd, no wonder their systems get polluted
 
But you do the same as all of us though, turn on the taps. I have never seen anybody flush out the water pipes. I have only ever done it when installing cold mains, due to pebbles in feeds to new build properties.
 
I have seen the very same fitters Kirkgas, them who cannot be bothered to buy a flux brush, I knew a guy who used his finger to flux most joints.
 
Halesowen1 said:
But you do the same as all of us though, turn on the taps. I have never seen anybody flush out the water pipes. I have only ever done it when installing cold mains, due to pebbles in feeds to new build properties.
Click to expand...

"DO AS I SAY, NOT AS I DO" springs to mind, but in saying that i use minimal flux in a house, therefore extra flushing not usually required with my work!!!!!!!!!!
 
Halesowen1 said:
But you do the same as all of us though, turn on the taps. I have never seen anybody flush out the water pipes. I have only ever done it when installing cold mains, due to pebbles in feeds to new build properties.
Click to expand...


i usually connect a bit of hep with a valve on the end to the tail coming out of the wall for a shower and flush that through before i connect a shower, but never really found the need to do it for taps
 
heliotrope said:
James Rose, Would this turquoise looking stuff in the filters be little solid bits?

If so it is most likely to be insulation from the cylinder (if indeed you have one). This very often happens
when fitting an immersion heater without making sure bits dont drop in when cleaning the seating.

If that is the case then it is just a case of clearing the filters till the problem stops.

Worst case is if there are large pieces which can catch in isolating valves or narrow flexi pipes.
Click to expand...

heliotrope - yes these blue bits are solid to look at then they crumble when pressed or squeezed !
They have been ending up in all the tap heads so i have been clearing with toothbrush.
Also flexi hoses on all taps here ! and i suppose it would be wise to un-couple all shower heads and massage jets to clear out and run through.

Plumber back here at 8am tomorrow - fingers crossed !
 
Halesowen1 said:
I have seen the very same fitters Kirkgas, them who cannot be bothered to buy a flux brush, I knew a guy who used his finger to flux most joints.
Click to expand...

For me its not the brush thats the problem its trying to keep it clean so you don't get dirt in the fitting.
 
I used to use the coill of solder dipped in the flux and run round the pipe/fitting...that was years ago mind
 
what has probably happend is that after the 1st fix installation then the second fix the pipework has layed unused for a while (no water supply)and excessive flux has been left to degrade/oxidize. The pipework should have been flushed after the 1st fix and then flushed after the second fix. Excessive boss white use can also cause major problems with valves anf fixtures.

There have been cases with new builds where pipework had been left with debris inside for very long periods and major problems where encountered after water was finally connected needing complete repipes. im unsure without reading the water regs book but in these cases you need to decontaminate the pipework before commissioning of the system.
 
Halesowen1 said:
Must say I have never had that problem, I just leave the brush in the flux pot.
Click to expand...


i drilled a hole in the lid of the flux for the brush to go in so the lid can be screwed back on to keep the flux clean, and as long as you keep buying the same flux you just swap lids when the tub is empty
 
I would say thats what we all do, I warm up a bit of copper pipe though, saves getting bits from the drill in the flux.
 
You warm up a bit of copper with your blow torch get the piece of plastic you want a hole in and push it through. Some do it on CWSCs but this isn't advisable as it does weaken the molecular structure of the plastic and cause it (in worst case scenario) to split. Also you have to then file off all the plastic that was pushed through and get it out. Best to just use one of those drill bits (The name has just slipped out my head, it'll come to me later, everyone will know what I mean) that has a guide bit then a circle bit with sharp teeth to cut a perfect hole in it :)
 
And what is the best brush to use? Most cheap brushes fall apart.
 
Well i use my finger. Have done for near 40 years and its still there.
Hate using brushes as it slaps too much on and i ain't got the time to play at being Picasso.
 
I get Rothengerger brushes from city plumbing, but as long as you dont do what i do( put some more flux to a soldered joint, to make the solder run again) they will last a while, the best ones are the ones with no metal holding the brush hair on as these rot away.
 
tamz said:
Well i use my finger. Have done for near 40 years and its still there.
Hate using brushes as it slaps too much on and i ain't got the time to play at being Picasso.
Click to expand...

College used to go mad at me for using my finger, didn't do it again after picking up the stuff that cleans the pipe and fitting itself!
 
jase158 said:
My last tub of La co didnt have one? but it did come from screw fix.
Click to expand...
The big tubs dont have one but the smaller standard ones should have one. I got mine from Screw Fix too but that was last year.
 
tamz said:
Well i use my finger. Have done for near 40 years and its still there.
Hate using brushes as it slaps too much on and i ain't got the time to play at being Picasso.
Click to expand...

You dont do much 8 or 10mm work then?
A mate I know uses his pinky too, must admit I much prefer a nice fine flux brush.
 
Halesowen1 said:
I would say thats what we all do, I warm up a bit of copper pipe though, saves getting bits from the drill in the flux.
Click to expand...


in this day and age you need to do a risk assessment before you do this in case the heat causes toxic fumes, you also need a hot work permit to heat the pipe with a blow lamp
 
Halesowen1 said:
I get Rothengerger brushes from city plumbing, but as long as you dont do what i do( put some more flux to a soldered joint, to make the solder run again) they will last a while, the best ones are the ones with no metal holding the brush hair on as these rot away.
Click to expand...

so something like this, but without the metal?
brush-250x250.jpg
 
as an apprentice i copied the guy i worked with and used my finger to apply powerflow. After a few weeks the skin on my finger/s started to peel off. i now use my solder, only use a brush on 28-42mm.
 
Halesowen1 said:
You dont do much 8 or 10mm work then?
A mate I know uses his pinky too, must admit I much prefer a nice fine flux brush.
Click to expand...

Just smear it around the pipe. No need to do the fitting. Brushes are just not my thing.
Painting flux on a joint while doing it or to cool it does my nut in. I once sacked a guy for that.
 
kirkgas said:
in this day and age you need to do a risk assessment before you do this in case the heat causes toxic fumes, you also need a hot work permit to heat the pipe with a blow lamp
Click to expand...

You also need to do a risk assessment when you get your drill out to drill the lid, I hope you are also putting your goggles on too when drilling the lid.
Does soldering using the flux cause toxic fumes too and does it also need a hot work permit??
 
Halesowen1 said:
You also need to do a risk assessment when you get your drill out to drill the lid, I hope you are also putting your goggles on too when drilling the lid.
Does soldering using the flux cause toxic fumes too and does it also need a hot work permit??
Click to expand...

see you are learning the rules,
risk assessment on drilling the lid is: use hand drill as it is safer, goggles AND gloves, a vice to hold the lid (i know risk assessment on the heavy vice)
read safety list for flux and it says suitable to use on copper pipe for soldering, so no risk assessment required as it is fit for purpose, its heating the lid that is risky as we dont know the type of plastic the lid is made of, and again safety first, do all soldering outside and take pipework sections back in and fit with compression fittings (no joke this appeared in an amendment to the EAGA contract when a couples house got burned to the ground when getting their new free heating)
 
im bloody fed up of hot work permits, i soldered 3 fittings inside a house today. took me a few mins, it took me 20mins to get the hot works signed off. :(
 
AWheating said:
im bloody fed up of hot work permits, i soldered 3 fittings inside a house today. took me a few mins, it took me 20mins to get the hot works signed off. :(
Click to expand...

and obviously you also included a 1hr wait time/inspection after the last fitting was soldered
 
Halesowen1 said:
You also need to do a risk assessment when you get your drill out to drill the lid, I hope you are also putting your goggles on too when drilling the lid.
Does soldering using the flux cause toxic fumes too and does it also need a hot work permit??
Click to expand...

If everyone did an honest risk assessment while sitting having a coffee at 7 in the morning we would just go back to bed.

Getting from the house to the van in the snow
Risk....... trips and falls
Severity...Minor to fatal
Control.....Back to bed!
 
well sort of :) , i had to fit the svp which took about 40-50mins after i had soldered. I do always walk thought at the end of the day to make sure i have not left any tools lying around.

Its a wonderful excuse to pack up your tools early....... i cant do it tonight as i have to wait an hour after soldering, but the site closes in half an hour!
 
kirkgas said:
see you are learning the rules,
risk assessment on drilling the lid is: use hand drill as it is safer, goggles AND gloves, a vice to hold the lid (i know risk assessment on the heavy vice)
read safety list for flux and it says suitable to use on copper pipe for soldering, so no risk assessment required as it is fit for purpose, its heating the lid that is risky as we dont know the type of plastic the lid is made of, and again safety first, do all soldering outside and take pipework sections back in and fit with compression fittings (no joke this appeared in an amendment to the EAGA contract when a couples house got burned to the ground when getting their new free heating)
Click to expand...

That ammendment was for all loft work, nobody working on once known as Warmfront scheme is allowed to solder in a loft, it must all be push fit or compression, EAGA were once the main contractors.
I know all about these rules as I inspect Warmfront (EAGA) work 2 days a week.
 
tamz said:
If everyone did an honest risk assessment while sitting having a coffee at 7 in the morning we would just go back to bed.

Getting from the house to the van in the snow
Risk....... trips and falls
Severity...Minor to fatal
Control.....Back to bed!
Click to expand...


my old firm had a risk assessment for driving in the winter, which basically said if you felt it was unsafe to drive you could stay at home and you would still get paided........ of course non of the employees got to see that one.
 
A good little tip to help with this, I always have a water spray bottle in my solder tray, give every fitting a spray and a clean once soldered, plus handy with those little fires due to hidden paper under floorbaords etc.
 
Halesowen1 said:
Why didnt you fit her system in the first place?
Click to expand...

Probably because they are pensioners and entitled to it for free..........even if it means they have 2 rads less than they had because the spare rooms are unoccupied.
What is that one all about?
 
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