flame lift error

[cdlaney53]

Hi Everyone.
First post for me, i'm s/e joiner (unemployed) I have Ariston E-combi condenser that keeps showing a flame lift fault. Boiler will sometimes run for one/two hours for CH and then go to flame lift error, after the first time boiler needs 10 mins rest and then will fire up and continue for around 30 mins sometimes less sometimes more 40mins/50mins but continues going to flame lift error, However if whilst the boiler is going through the ignition sequences you turn the hot tap on the boiler fires and runs as normal (without any rest) Many have said its a flue problem or gas valve? How can this be? if it fires on DHW but not CH. I know i'm only a poor little joiner but this sounds crazy to me, can anyone shed any light on this? OK i know ring an Ariston egineer! but like i say, (unemployed) Thank you to anyone with advise

 

[Roger Welton]

It could really be any number of things, and a local GSR should be able to sort you out quite quickly, I think thats your best option.

 

[Millsy 82]

It does sound like a flue fault is it vertical or horizontal. Is there anything blocking flue like bushes the last time I had flame lift it was a nice crispy bird stuck in the flue

 

[Syty]

For how long did you try it on DHW?
I am afraid it doesn't matter if you employed or not, you should not play with gas appliance if you are not qualified

 

[cdlaney53]

It does sound like a flue fault is it vertical or horizontal. Is there anything blocking flue like bushes the last time I had flame lift it was a nice crispy bird stuck in the flue

Thank you to all for your answers, Milsy, the flue goes verticle 1mtr then 45degrees for 1mtr then verticle through the roof maximum travel 3.5 mtrs. surely if the flue is at fault the boiler would not ignite on DHW either? this is the bit i cant get my head round, dont fancy having the plasterwork disturbed to be honest but obviously if it has to be, it has to be. I suppose i was hoping that someone on here would say, ah yes iv'e come across that problem its a little sensor playin up that would'nt involve any work in the gas chambers, all the parts outside of the chambers are an absolute doddle to work on and the parts are well priced even to me!

There are some power settings on the boiler that can be altered by pressing the on /off button and reset button in a particular sequence, then turning the CH knob and DHW knob to the required power indicated by the led's then stored by pressing the on/off button could it be one these do you think that may have jumped ship! i remember the fitter saying he'd set the ignition delay at the default of 2 mins, i wondered perhaps if i reset it to the max 6 mins whether that may help? Anyway enough of my going's on her indoors wants a cuppa! Thanks again

 

[Millsy 82]

I cant say much about any common faults on these as I dont think I have ever worked on 1.

When the boiler is on hot water its not running for as long as when the heating is on. It could be many different things but the first thing I would check would be the flueing it may have become disconnected apart from that it could be gas valve pcb flame rectification probe heat ex needs cleaning etc. The best bet is to get gsr engineer round check the flueing and the combustion of the boiler.

I would of thought that the ignition delay would not alter it this will act to stop the boiler from constantly firing up after it shuts down it will not fire up for another 2 mins unless hw tap turned on

 

[cdlaney53]

I cant say much about any common faults on these as I dont think I have ever worked on 1.

When the boiler is on hot water its not running for as long as when the heating is on. It could be many different things but the first thing I would check would be the flueing it may have become disconnected apart from that it could be gas valve pcb flame rectification probe heat ex needs cleaning etc. The best bet is to get gsr engineer round check the flueing and the combustion of the boiler.



I would of thought that the ignition delay would not alter it this will act to stop the boiler from constantly firing up after it shuts down it will not fire up for another 2 mins unless hw tap turned on

Milsy, It sounds like i'm not doing a very good job of explaining myself, we have no problem with the DHW it's only when the CH has been on for around 1 hour that the fault occurs then after that first time it becomes a recurring fault around about every half hour or so once its had a least 10 mins stoppage. If however when the fault occurs i repeatedly reset the boiler when it is the CH mode it will not ignite,no way, but at the same time if press the reset button and put the hot tap on the boiler will ignite no problem and supply as much hot water as we need.
Could it be (iv'e bin thinkin) that when i pull the hot tap on, that the fan would be on full power and would clear any combustion bulid up and hence the boilers fires, but while its in the CH mode possibly the boiler would be in the condensing mode and the fan would not be at full power, and if there is a problem with the fluing the fan can not clear it? Would you agree with that train of thought or am i on the wrong track? If this is the case, yes i can see that its more than likely to be the flue. BWTFDIK! Many Thanks for your help really appreciated

 

[aggis]

An experience Gas Safe Engineer will put a Flue gas anylser test on the boiler, it might just need recalibrating or a new seal kit. Seriously Get a GS engineer, as if you even just take the burner out to just have a look, you could cause major problems, ie 1000 degress C leaking & melting expensive parts & not to mention fumes [carbon monoxide] into your home!!
Just get an experienced breakdown GS engineer or Manufactures & be safe.

 

[Destroyer2813]

If your flues all boxed in the joints are gonna need to be made avaliable for inspection soon as well to comply with updated regulations, could be one of the joints has come aparrt and you know nothing about it

 

[cdlaney53]

An experience Gas Safe Engineer will put a Flue gas anylser test on the boiler, it might just need recalibrating or a new seal kit. Seriously Get a GS engineer, as if you even just take the burner out to just have a look, you could cause major problems, ie 1000 degress C leaking & melting expensive parts & not to mention fumes [carbon monoxide] into your home!!
Just get an experienced breakdown GS engineer or Manufactures & be safe.

Thanks Aggis
That's exactly what i intend to do aggis, i have no intention of breaking any gas seals what so ever, i'm not hear for that reason i just like to understand whats going on before i commit any monies to anything, I work in the construction industry and am fully aware of the regs, i dont do stooopid!

I have already rung 2 GS's That are registered as doing combustion analysis, and both have said although they have the relevant certs they do not have the combustion analysis machine simply because its to expensive. So to me this begs the question, how do these people commission new boilers in the proper manner?

Me, i'm going for an Ariston trained engineer, no one else will lay a finger on it! I have not 100% faith in the GSR, I personally dont believe registration gaurantees quality.

When i purchased the boiler i said to the fitter because its a bigger boiler that i would be happier if we put the 125/80mm flue on it, but he talked me out of it and installed the normal 100/60 fluing. Thinking of changing it, not sure, do you think we would just wasting money? Many Thanks for your comment

 

[cdlaney53]

Destroyer 2813
Yes my flue is all box in, being a chippy meselfs i got 2 rooms in the attic the first 45degree bend on my flue is very easily got at, but the other 45 where it joins the starter kit is really difficult to get at and i can now see that it could very easily not be connected properly. hmmm you boys have convinced me, its the flue! That it then theres gonna be a big ****off walk in inspection panel constructed first thing tommoz. Many Thanks.

 

[aggis]

Re flue size, if installer has followed manufactures instructions, it should be fine.
Going for an Ariston engineer is a safe bet, wouldn't ever touch GS companys that don't have the correct equiptment.
I agree with your comment, there are lots of things that the industry has got wrong!!
Having a flue gas analyser does cost alot but incorperating the expense into the job & allowing reassurance & speed in completing it makes money.
For some strange reason some manufactures do not require an FGA for commissioning.

 

[Millsy 82]

It might not be the flue just sounds like it, make some holes for access hatches dont just rip your wall to bits, a company with a FGA will be able to tell you if it is a flue problem within seconds it still needs access hatches so that we can see the flue in its entire length. it could be a couple of other things aswell I was just saying that would be 1 of the main things I'd check.

On hot water the boiler runs full pelt but uses more gas so needs more air. I would have thought if your flue was blocked it would have done the same on ho****er but unless youve got a huge bath you wont be running hot water for 40 mins but I have had it once.
As for just going for an ariston engineer obviously thats not a bad idea but there are very good engineers out there aswell its just finding them same as in your trade I know lots of joiners only a couple who i'd have do work for me. Around me its not the most common of boilers ( worcesters or vaillants mainly) but you may be able to get somebody good around you who knows ariston boilers without paying manufacturers prices

 

[Millsy 82]

Sorry forgot to say unless the flue is longer than the manufacturer recommends there is no point in putting a larger flue in they are designed for running flues over a greater length

 

[cdlaney53]

It might not be the flue just sounds like it, make some holes for access hatches dont just rip your wall to bits, a company with a FGA will be able to tell you if it is a flue problem within seconds it still needs access hatches so that we can see the flue in its entire length. it could be a couple of other things aswell I was just saying that would be 1 of the main things I'd check.

On hot water the boiler runs full pelt but uses more gas so needs more air. I would have thought if your flue was blocked it would have done the same on ho****er but unless youve got a huge bath you wont be running hot water for 40 mins but I have had it once.
As for just going for an ariston engineer obviously thats not a bad idea but there are very good engineers out there aswell its just finding them same as in your trade I know lots of joiners only a couple who i'd have do work for me. Around me its not the most common of boilers ( worcesters or vaillants mainly) but you may be able to get somebody good around you who knows ariston boilers without paying manufacturers prices

Milsy I understand what your sayin, obviously i gotta start somewhere so we've decided, now that the wheathers seemingly getting better there is no urgency to the solution, we got hot water and if needs be we can get a couple of hours central heating. So i shall sort the access out first, me, just hate struggling bin doin it to long, its gonna a be a full lenght walk in panel. Then i'm not rushing to engage anyones services until i feel completely comfortable about their abilities.

Coincidently my next door neighbour has just had a heating system installed on some government grant scheme (he's disabled) and i approached the installer and asked him if he knew any Ariston engineers, no sorry mate where just installers! but what i said earlier to "aggiss" about not having complete confidence GSR is not unfouded, because when i looked at this chaps installation of the flue, face on it was spotters, but when you walk up the road and see sideways its at about 2" out of plumb,this is what unnerves me, these people are working for councils ect ffs, is the fitters or is it the finacial constraints with which they have to work? Anyway its Sunday had loads to drink, mother inlaw fryin me brain wish she'd ****off to bed! Happy days!

 

[Millsy 82]

If it is a flue fault you dont want to leave it

 

[cdlaney53]

If it is a flue fault you dont want to leave it

No worries Milsy we bought a CO alarm from screwfix , mind , if you hear an unexlpained explosion hmm it could the ends of cdlaney )) BOOOOOOOM!!! just like Iran?

 

[Gabriel Moreti]

Just had a customer of mine calling with the same issue, boiler working fine on DHW and flame lift error when on CH, after several hours, doing all possible checks, (I am a qualified gas safe engineer) I found a ****ty filter installed just before the pump inside the boiler (refer to boiler manual) CH return filter. I have removed the filter which was completely clogged up, cleaned. Re pressurised the system, bled the main burner, following manufactory instruction and managed to fix the problem. I hope this helps, because in my case that was the issue.

 

[Dotty]

Moved off open forum.