Pumped conventional gas boiler connected to gravity solid fuel boiler system??

[pcplumbing]

I am a gas safe registered engineer, I have been asked by customer to change oil boiler for gas boiler.The conventional oil boiler is floor mounted with pumped heating circulation pipes but gravity hot water coil connection. There is also a solid fuel wood burner which flow and return are connected in as also heat water.I am unsure of how these are linked in as not visible, will have to lift floorboards. How should these be connected? With the new gas boiler it will have to be fully pumped but will the pump effect the configuration of the linked system? i looked into it and it says to use a neutral point manifold is this correct? will this be all i will need to join system? they want to keep the cylinder as it is as an open vented system so the only other option is to change cylinder for two coil and seperate from solid fuel.

Any advice greatly appreciated
thanks

 

[kris]

There are a few ways of interconnecting or linking the two systems. The last one i did was with a dunsley nuetraliser. Its a fair system to rig up but once its up n running its brill . The nuetraliser which is basically a rectangular box (or u get a circular one) with 9 ports . The nuetraliser sits near the hot water tank and into the nuetraliser go woodburner flow n return. Boiler flow n return. coil flow n return . Cold feed n vent pipe and it gets piped in such away that the wood burner heats rads when boiler not in use. But must wirk on gravity incase of power cuts. Another thing aswell the f & e tank must be made of fibre glass with ball cock and a copper float. No plastic. Im on my phone but go to dunsley website they have all pipe layouts. But there are many ways to link up.

 

[pcplumbing]

Hello thanks for the advice. I was thinking as u said, will this neutraliser have its own independant cold feed tank you are saying. Should it originally of being run with this set up when it was two gravity systems? I would thought notis this correct? so i shall have to put neutraliser where the flow and returns of both join up.
kind regards
thanks Patrick

 

[pcplumbing]

hello thanks for help.
will i need to connect back to flow and return for heating as it in seperate location and can i not have mtorixed valve on the heating at all. will i need to get hetas engineer to check that side. i am sorry to be a pain with extra questins just trying to get my head round this one.

 

[kris]

No there is only 1 f & e tank that fills everything because both systems are linked together and this gives you the option of heating n hot water through your boiler or you can have your boiler off and use the woodburner and it will do hot water and heating, the last one i done there were 3 motorised valves and 2 pumps, heres the layouts from dunsley, i used layout 2, but youd be better drawing it out yourself as tricky to follow but real simple once you sus it out,
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&r...2OKc_06CBhYJxLN4A&sig2=j9iccbMcFHjFMr6CouPF2A

 

[goz666]

Dunsley Technical are very helpful, I was asked last year to do a similar job and priced up an H2 Panel, I give the price to the customer and he didn't want the job doing properly so I lost the work to a two bob builder. How he's done the job I don't know, but I don't lose any sleep over it.

Heating Innovations homepage

Never used one yet but look like a good product !!!

 

[SimonG]

H2 panel is the business. Used one last year, still waiting for them to buy the stove so I can complete the installation. Very impressed with them though.

 

[kris]

Wots price of that h2 panels i just looked at tech of it and they look expensive. The dunsley nuetraliser is just a box with angled baffles inside that point flows in certain directions. Its crazy how simplistic they are...

 

[Centralheatking]

Hi pc

We always like new members -we are all quite thick
especially J Cropp - anyway I am quite sure
that we can help you BUT then you should give back
with your advice etc when you have sorted ur problem

CHK

I am a gas safe registered engineer, I have been asked by customer to change oil boiler for gas boiler.The conventional oil boiler is floor mounted with pumped heating circulation pipes but gravity hot water coil connection. There is also a solid fuel wood burner which flow and return are connected in as also heat water.I am unsure of how these are linked in as not visible, will have to lift floorboards. How should these be connected? With the new gas boiler it will have to be fully pumped but will the pump effect the configuration of the linked system? i looked into it and it says to use a neutral point manifold is this correct? will this be all i will need to join system? they want to keep the cylinder as it is as an open vented system so the only other option is to change cylinder for two coil and seperate from solid fuel.

Any advice greatly appreciated
thanks

 

[SimonG]

Wots price of that h2 panels i just looked at tech of it and they look expensive. The dunsley nuetraliser is just a box with angled baffles inside that point flows in certain directions. Its crazy how simplistic they are...

Just a steel chest, its all the extra controls etc that bump the price up.

Aye the h2 are expensive for what they are but its all in there.

 

[SimonG]

I suppose its why we all drive different vans, prefer different boilers to install etc etc.

Be a bit boring if we all bought Acme products like Wil e Coyote

 

[goz666]

I also spoke to the guy who makes the H2 panels and he was a really sound and very knowledgeable fella. Like Simon already said it comes ready made, with diverters, stats, etc all wired up ready. Find a space, fit to the wall and pipe up, wires in and off you go. All linked in so that if the stove cools the boiler kicks in on a separate stat etc. I was looking forward to fitting one actually but the cost of safety weighs heavily when someone can do the same job with 10mts of speedfit and a couple of speedfit manifolds eh !!!!!

 

[Ermintrude]

U can get a Quench for the solid fuel aswell.

 

[SimonG]

U can get a Quench for the solid fuel aswell.

I take it thats a step up from the old bucket of water by the side of the stove?

 

[Ermintrude]

[DLMURL]http://www.esbe.eu/hr/en/~/media/ESBE%20PIM_ESBE%20sync%20BR/Documents/Data%20sheets/GB/VST100_GB_A_LR.ashx[/DLMURL]

 

[Pipes Plumbing]

Lots of ways of doing this link up... If it's open vent across the whole system I would be looking at either a Low loss header or another form of neutral point (Dunsley, Esse, systemzone etc), and then running a bog standard S plan away from that to the Cylinder and DCH.

You will need a suitably sized heat leak rad on the SF boiler primaries to dissipate heat in the event of a powercut etc.
I'd also be fitting a high limit stat to the SF primaries to bring in the HW & DCH zones if the flow temp gets too high (85ish).

This way you convert the system to fully pumped and can have decent interlocked controls so you meet Part L.

If you want to do it really nicely you would be looking at back end protection to the SF stove to keep the return temps at >60 to prevent corrosion of the boiler.

Don't forget the High temp header and copper overflow too....

I have used a fair few H2 panels, and they are good at what they do as a packaged solution, but here are definitely more flexible ways of doing it

 

[josh]

Has anyone ever used a buffer to get more use out of the heat created by the stove/solid fuel appliance? Diagram of it in the euroheat catalougue.

 

[Ermintrude]

Yes buffers are very common, a must if you want your solid fuel system to work efficiently

 

[kris]

I hears you like to buffer about ermis,,