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Discuss Promax Combi HE Plus recharge expansion valve in the Plumbing Forum | Plumbing Advice area at PlumbersForums.net

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5
Hi all, a little advice and validation of current advice (from dad). So boiler has been loosing pressure with an error code of E119. The pressure drops over a day or two and I top it up to around 1.5 by means of loop. This temporarily allows the boiler to fire up and do its thing. I can't carry on doing this as there is obviously a problem. My dad who is now in his eighties and partially blind (recipe for disaster?) was previously a plumber (many moons ago) and decided he could probably sort this out. I reluctantly let him have a look even though i know that for certain parts of the boiler you need to be a Registered Gas Engineer. As he was not touching any of the gas side and only the plumbing (water) he said it would be fine. So he basically told me the expansion vessel probably needed replacing and he could easily check. After checking which seemed to be a simple procedure (did not catch everything he did) of pressing an air valve (like on a bike) he said the vessel (red tank) seemed to be ok. That is to say, air came out when he pressed it and not water. He checked the overflow pipe which was leaking water (when the boiler was re-pressurised from loop). He turned the whole lot off, turned all the valves off under the boiler (three of them i think), opened a drain plug under/in the boiler and let all the water out. He then asked me to go get a car tyre pump, which set me panicking as its not something i would associate with a boiler? I borrowed a bike pump, as it had a gauge on it, it was ok to use apparently? So he stuck this on the vessel and pumped away and about a medium sized pan of water came out. He asked me to pump the vessel until the bike gauge was on 1 which would fix the problem (he struggled to be able to read the gauge). I could hear air going in but the gauge just kept going straight down to zero. If i kept the pump handle pressed down the gauge would take a bit longer to return to zero. I told my dad it was just going straight to zero but he insisted it would probably be ok and the pump gauge was probably broken. The pump end was jammed on the valve as there was not enough room to properly lock the connector but i could hear no escaping air so looked good. Really sorry for long story but wanted to make sure i mentioned everything. So closed drain, opened the valves, opened loop to get pressure of 1.5 again (cant remember if the power was back on at this point). Fired up the heating and it worked, however it was working already once i got the pressure back up to 1.5 by using filling loop. The heating and water worked all day and next day when i would usually have to add more pressure it was working on its own. My Dad claims victory and hints that i owe him several drinks as that would have cost me a couple of hundred pounds. I reserve judgement as its only been one day. The other thing is that my downstairs radiators all seem to be a very different temperatures when they are all fully on. Some are lukewarm and the others are very hot. So now to my questions, does any of this make sense as I am quite worried that more damage could be caused. The other thing is that my dear old dad says what he did would have no effect on the radiators and they must have already been that way. This is the part that worries me as they were most definitely not this way which make me think he has got something wrong. I did have a quick look at the cool radiators and opened the bleed valve, but water came out straight away, although it was just a trick rather than squirting. I dont know if i should balance the radiators again (i did this once before by adjusting the flow on each radiator (dads advice again)) or leaving it a few days. As you can tell the fact that I have posted this after only one day tells you I am a little worried about further damage. If anyone is still awake and can advise. Yes i know I should get a heating engineer, which i of course will if the general consensus is that this could cause more damage. thanks for reading. All advise appreciated.
 
A

Aquarius

Yes you need a gas safe registered engineer, because you have opened up the case seal to access the expansion vessel - so although you claim not to be touching anything gas - you need to check the flue at both sample points to confirm integrity - which is considered gas work, as defined in the gas installation and use regulations 1998. The likelihood is that the expansion vessel hasn’t been charged properly, or failed, and you clearly have some other issues, such as the radiator temperature.
 
Messages
5
Yes you need a gas safe registered engineer, because you have opened up the case seal to access the expansion vessel - so although you claim not to be touching anything gas - you need to check the flue at both sample points to confirm integrity - which is considered gas work, as defined in the gas installation and use regulations 1998. The likelihood is that the expansion vessel hasn’t been charged properly, or failed, and you clearly have some other issues, such as the radiator temperature.
Yeah, i did read about gas chamber or similar, thinking this was the actual metal case around the combustion part.
 

Knappers

Plumber
Gas Engineer
Messages
592
I don't disagree with Aquarius but I dont disagree with your dad either. There is no legislation that covers the circumstances you've described, it really is your call and your responsibility.
I don't want to scare you but if something did go wrong then you'd also be responsible for that.
 

Knappers

Plumber
Gas Engineer
Messages
592
Yeah, i did read about gas chamber or similar, thinking this was the actual metal case around the combustion part.
Common misconception as with most modern boilers 'a gasway' also includes air intake and rightly so.
If expansion vessel was behind the boiler then you likely haven't technically broken 'our rules' as on that boiler the case doesn't form a 'gasway'.
If your not confident then get a gas man in, he will be bound by all the relevant legislation and can take responsibility for any work done.
Your talking about a gas appliance in your house here and asking us to reassure you that you and a partially blind man have done a good job???
How can we?
You know what was done and i'd say your father knows what he's doing, have you caused an unsafe situation?
Do you know you haven't?

your call...
 
Messages
5
Common misconception as with most modern boilers 'a gasway' also includes air intake and rightly so.
If expansion vessel was behind the boiler then you likely haven't technically broken 'our rules' as on that boiler the case doesn't form a 'gasway'.
If your not confident then get a gas man in, he will be bound by all the relevant legislation and can take responsibility for any work done.
Your talking about a gas appliance in your house here and asking us to reassure you that you and a partially blind man have done a good job???
How can we?
You know what was done and i'd say your father knows what he's doing, have you caused an unsafe situation?
Do you know you haven't?

your call...

OMG "partially blind man" makes it sound so comical. At least a couple of the comments have put my mind at rest a little as was half expecting posts saying turn it off right now and get an engneer. Unless anything else happens i will leave it and the next time it happens, which i am expecting to be today when i get home/tomorrow I will then get an engineer out. If it is still going when i get to the weekend I will then try balance the radiators and perhaps get my dad a bottle of whiskey :)
 

Knappers

Plumber
Gas Engineer
Messages
592
I was trying to set it up like a joke but with no bars for you to walk into I was struggling for a punchline 😁
I think your plan seems reasonable, hope all goes well.
 
Messages
5
I was trying to set it up like a joke but with no bars for you to walk into I was struggling for a punchline 😁
I think your plan seems reasonable, hope all goes well.
Lol. Well at moment I am smiling as heating is still working and when it's on its at around 1.5 bar. Pipes have warmed up a little but still need sorting.
 
Messages
1,760
E.Vessel Recharging
Looking good and even (generally speaking) if a bags is made of re charging it then the boiler safety valve (PRV) protects the boiler as its safe working pressure is the PRV setting.
 

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