Gas Safe Engineers

[Kyle87]

People just don't understand that the flame uses air. When flame has used most of the air it struggles and produces co.
it's so simple

If you could explain it in a single line and give it a 15 second advert on TV I think you could save a few lives

 

[Masood]

I do quite a bit of work on the sites over here, I think I'll have a chat with the wardens and bang some notices up.

If it makes people think again that's good enough for me!

Top man! I live very close to Gilwell Park and know a few of the scout leaders. Will have a chat there as well. Could tie it in to Gas Safety week...

 

[SimonG]

We could knock gas safe week on the head and all the other 'well meaning' but pointless awareness attempts and stick a 15 to 20 second info advert on in between corrie or eastenders with some hard facts on combustion.

 

[Dotty]

Perhaps a CO related fatality on one of those soaps. One of the big names.

Corrie's got a few embarrassing employees at the moment it could afford to lose!

 

[SimonG]

Could just gas the whole street/square for me.

 

[mountainman]

Could just gas the whole street/square for me.

Can I help you do it please?

 

[SimonG]

As long as some of it can be attributed to dodgy oil appliances

 

[mountainman]

I think we need some help from Bruce Willis for a proper job.

Police car brings down helicopter carrying 5000 litre LPG tank surrounded by a 10000 litre diesel tank directly above the Kabin at midnight on new years eve.
The explosion created a tsunami which wiped out Home Farm and a five mile radius around the Woolpack.

Now, that's what I call TV

 

[Bernie2]

Not knowing possibly causes more accidents than information. In the gsr industry people seem largely not knowing about safety and do not see the reason for danger until you tell them. But the Gas Safety Register is supposed to help ensure peoples safety but possibly only if they know what they are being kept safe from. If a person thinks getting in a gsr fitter is going to cost them far more that they can afford and they think the job is easy based on not knowing they will probably have a go themselves. That is not promoting safe practices. By giving out information you are warning them as to the dangers, if they then go ahead and still do it, that problem is theirs. You at least tried to warn them it was not simple. Anyway they can always buy Torreys or Viper books they have been available for years to the general public. A GSR fitters job is to promote safety not form a secret club.

 

[AWheating]

Another one that i often get into arguments over is site generators. Why do carpenters and others think its ok to use a generator by the front door or even worse just inside the property. I even had one carpenter who laughted at me when i told him to move his generator from the front door of the house we were both working in.

Its one thing to be stupid enough to kill yourself, its another to put others health at risk or even worse murder somebody.

 

[Dotty]

Not knowing possibly causes more accidents than information. In the gsr industry people seem largely not knowing about safety and do not see the reason for danger until you tell them. But the Gas Safety Register is supposed to help ensure peoples safety but possibly only if they know what they are being kept safe from. If a person thinks getting in a gsr fitter is going to cost them far more that they can afford and they think the job is easy based on not knowing they will probably have a go themselves. That is not promoting safe practices. By giving out information you are warning them as to the dangers, if they then go ahead and still do it, that problem is theirs. You at least tried to warn them it was not simple. Anyway they can always buy Torreys or Viper books they have been available for years to the general public. A GSR fitters job is to promote safety not form a secret club.

How many times do I have to say no?

 

[Dotty]

Another one that i often get into arguments over is site generators. Why do carpenters and others think its ok to use a generator by the front door or even worse just inside the property. I even had one carpenter who laughted at me when i told him to move his generator from the front door of the house we were both working in.

Its one thing to be stupid enough to kill yourself, its another to put others health at risk or even worse murder somebody.

I had to run a genny in the back of my van earlier this year because it was too large to pull out on my own. I had all the doors open while I was working but thought i'd leave a CO monitor on the dashboard while i was working.

Bearing in mind the van was ventilated and there's a bulkhead fitted the CO detector peaked at 470ppm after only 5 minutes running! (I was fusion welding an LPG service pipe in the middle of a field.)

Needless to say I made sure the genny was turned off and all the doors remained open a good half hour before I got in the van!

 

[Billy Bob Bob]

Not knowing possibly causes more accidents than information. In the gsr industry people seem largely not knowing about safety and do not see the reason for danger until you tell them. But the Gas Safety Register is supposed to help ensure peoples safety but possibly only if they know what they are being kept safe from. If a person thinks getting in a gsr fitter is going to cost them far more that they can afford and they think the job is easy based on not knowing they will probably have a go themselves. That is not promoting safe practices. By giving out information you are warning them as to the dangers, if they then go ahead and still do it, that problem is theirs. You at least tried to warn them it was not simple. Anyway they can always buy Torreys or Viper books they have been available for years to the general public. A GSR fitters job is to promote safety not form a secret club.

if you dont like the way we promote gas safety on this site bernie or agree with the orange headings we would rather you not contribute to the forums,you are on some sort of mission to undermine what we are trying to achieve there is no secret club we just dot want anyone to die by the advice given on here

 

[AWheating]

I had to run a genny in the back of my van earlier this year because it was too large to pull out on my own. I had all the doors open while I was working but thought i'd leave a CO monitor on the dashboard while i was working.

Bearing in mind the van was ventilated and there's a bulkhead fitted the CO detector peaked at 470ppm after only 5 minutes running! (I was fusion welding an LPG service pipe in the middle of a field.)

Needless to say I made sure the genny was turned off and all the doors remained open a good half hour before I got in the van!

atleast you used your head.

it does not take very long for co off a generator to get to dangerous levels. In the USA there are alot of deaths every year from generators, They keep them for backup power when hurricane/twister season hit. Many get them out and use them in there safe room/shelter when the powers down.

you also have to take into consideration your PLI, my old policy required a generator to be used 3m from property to avoid fire damage. I worked on a site many years ago where the plasterer filled his up while smoking, he drop his *** and it when up. His problem was the generator was inside the front door and it burnt half the house down.

 

[Bernie2]

We can all do stupid things Croppie and publish it on the website making others think its okay. Seems to me we might be using a set of double standards which says some people can do what ever they want but others must do as they are told. One of the main safety factors is knowledge. A popular DIY expert was on the TV recently and said, I know all about how that thing works but I am not qualified to fix it. It was his knowledge that stopped him DIYing not his ignorance. Incidentally you and "gas man" give me the impression that you now own this site now or is Dan still the boss?Incidentally I was once a moderator on the site for a short time, so I know how far your brief extends. Its a Plumbers forum not a gas fitters and one that is supposedly welcome to all, so lets be a bit more tolerant to others please. If you want to keep things secret go off line and e-mail each other, secrecy is not what a forum is supposed to be about. I know what your viewpoint is, I just do not agree with it that is all. But you seem to project a threatening and bullying attitude all the time, perhaps not intentionally but you still seem to do it.

 

[Dotty]

We can all do stupid things Croppie and publish it on the website making others think its okay. Seems to me we might be using a set of double standards which says some people can do what ever they want but others must do as they are told. One of the main safety factors is knowledge. A popular DIY expert was on the TV recently and said, I know all about how that thing works but I am not qualified to fix it. It was his knowledge that stopped him DIYing not his ignorance. Incidentally you and "gas man" give me the impression that you now own this site now or is Dan still the boss?Incidentally I was once a moderator on the site for a short time, so I know how far your brief extends. Its a Plumbers forum not a gas fitters and one that is supposedly welcome to all, so lets be a bit more tolerant to others please. If you want to keep things secret go off line and e-mail each other, secrecy is not what a forum is supposed to be about. I know what your viewpoint is, I just do not agree with it that is all. But you seem to project a threatening and bullying attitude all the time, perhaps not intentionally but you still seem to do it.

Think I understand why you were a mod for only a short while. If a point blank "NO! These are the forum rules! You need to be of the class of person who is proven and qualified to work on gas and gas appliances as described in the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998." cannot be understood nor comprehended then there is something seriously wrong with that individual.

And if you see that as threatening or bullying then you have led a very sheltered life!

 

[Barry98]

And maybe "the brief" was changed after learning from mistakes made in the past

 

[Markus]

In my experience you have to know who you are dealing with before giving out advise relating to gas work and the context it will be used for. A piece of advise may cover one point, what about the other five points that have to be tested for the work to be safe. A little knowledge can be dangerous, all for the forum rules myself

 

[Bernie2]

Markus, if we ask ourselves, did the people who taught us gas fitting ask whether we where suitable to know it, answers that question. I am all for people knowing about gas, its just that the courses relating to safety should be free. The training of gas fitters in the past was usually undertaken mostly by the companies who wanted to use gas fitters. The modern idea of courses leaves it open to anybody so there is no real point in asking who is suitable to know about gas and who is not. As I have said before there is nothing wrong with giving advice it is the person who receives the advices responsibility to use it properly. The same way as a gas tutor views it when he teaches students. So if you inform people about the legal requirements of gas fitting before you tell them and give a disclaimer there is no real reason why you should not tell people.

 

[Kyle87]

Markus, if we ask ourselves, did the people who taught us gas fitting ask whether we where suitable to know it, answers that question. I am all for people knowing about gas, its just that the courses relating to safety should be free. The training of gas fitters in the past was usually undertaken mostly by the companies who wanted to use gas fitters. The modern idea of courses leaves it open to anybody so there is no real point in asking who is suitable to know about gas and who is not. As I have said before there is nothing wrong with giving advice it is the person who receives the advices responsibility to use it properly. The same way as a gas tutor views it when he teaches students. So if you inform people about the legal requirements of gas fitting before you tell them and give a disclaimer there is no real reason why you should not tell people.

I don't agree. That's like saying here's a gun. Ill tell you how to use it but if you kill someone that's your fault not mine.

People who undertake gas training have spent a lot of money on it. Like me. They are potential engineers. And obviously seek gas registration in the future.

People on the open forum may be potential engineers also with good intentions ( like myself ). But they may also be diyers or cowboys looking to abuse the info they receive. I
Don't blame ukpf for not taking the chance.

I'd love to be in the GSR only forum as I'd learn a ton. But I understand why I'm not allowed.

Bernie......give up the fight mate!!

 

[Kyle87]

Actually I was wrong to use a gun in comparison to gas. A gun isn't going to take a tower block out.

I should have said Bazooka!!

 

[Gary71]

I have said before there is nothing wrong with giving advice it is the person who receives the advices responsibility to use it properly.

Thats where you're argument falls down, trusting others to work safely, stupid people(their out there:hammer: )rarely know they are stupid so shouldn't be encouraged to fiddle by a Internet forum, although that goes against my views on natural selection.

 

[Ray Stafford]

although that goes against my views on natural selection.

Right with you there. If someone could guarantee me that idiots would only do DIY gas jobs on their own detatched houses, miles from neighbours, and before they had polluted the gene pool with more little idiots, I would be all for letting them loose.

Unfortunately, it always seems to be an innocent family member, neighbour or tenant that pays the price.

 

[Baloo790]

Some people, gas kills, co kills, if your not registered gas safe and qualified, for gods sake never mess with it. No excuses like man who can't afford! Save up like the rest, beg or borrow, but don't risk yours and your neighbours lives

 

[Dotty]

Unfortunately, it always seems to be an innocent family member, neighbour or tenant that pays the price.

As is proven here -

BBC News - Gas fitter charged over teenage Castlerock deaths

And no, he wasn't GSR!

 

[Bernie2]

Yes it is true gas fitters have been charged with manslaughter over bad jobs. But many of them have been GSR registered. Is the problem one of course cost recovery or are we trying to protect our work? Both of which have nothing to so with safety. A forum is supposed to be a place where people can give an opinion to those who ask not a closed club. I have no idea if all GSR gas fitters are any good or not if they blow people up as well as DIYers. It seems to me that just being GSR is thought to make a person a perfect gas fitter, I imagine that is not true. No wonder people and customers do not trust you to be fair to them and are possibly rip off merchants. The market needs opening up with competition to get realistic pricing. But while we have expensive courses that is hardly likely to happen. That is not working in the publics best interest and warning people about how they might get ripped off by unethical trades people is a public service. Telling people their likely problem is a £2.50 thermocouple may save them £100's of pounds or question their bill. As to safety knowing when your boiler or gas stove needs attention is paramount. Having worked as a Plumber/gas fitter for more years than I care to mention I know how neglectful of their own safety through ignorance people can be. Inform them and they just might do something about it, don't inform them and it usually proves they do not. So proper informed information is a key point in safety.

 

[Kyle87]

So you advise a thermocouple and customer saves a few hundred quid.

But fails to recognise the cow horns that they paint over every year as a threat and now you helped them get their appliance working, YOU have out them in danger because you are not there to see the job. Just giving advice over a forum!!

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm! Unless you live in the house with the person and inspect the appliance every time it is used you would never know when it was going wrong. It is impractical for you to do so. Just explain to the people, with that knowledge they can work it out for themselves. I imagine most people get killed through gas accidents because they don't know the dangers than those who do. When I have worked d on properties with blocked internal air vents once explained to the customer why it is important to keep them clear they seem to change their mind about blocking them up. Once you explain to a customer that the explosions in the boiler are late ignition gas valve problems they usually get it fixed. What is it with you guys and gas safety? it is not rocket science or a state secret its a matter of all our safety the more people know the safer it will probably be.

 

[AWheating]

its one thing talking face to face with a customer, its another thing giving advise to a stranger on an open forum. Yes this stranger could be full of common sense and a skilled diyer but this person is more likely to be a builder, unregisterd engineer or landlord. If you have a way of knowing the difference please share it with us?

if your new neighbour that moved in next door yesterday knocked on your door and asked to borrow your u gauge because hes fixing the boiler and read on the internet how to test his gas supply would you be concerned??

 

[Kyle87]

I've got no problem with explaining why the ventilation is there.

But telling a customer how to calculate required ventilation would be arming them to attempt DIY gas work and run the risk of getting it wrong.

The point I am personally making is we shouldn't be giving people the kind of advice that may lead to an attempt of the work being carried out.

Explaining somethings can be a good thing,

Like why customers shouldn't put a high level grill on the very top out of the way so they can warm plates for a Sunday dinner.

 

[Gary71]

Having worked as a Plumber/gas fitter for more years than I care to mention I know how neglectful of their own safety through ignorance people can be. Inform them and they just might do something about it, don't inform them and it usually proves they do not. So proper informed information is a key point in safety.

I love helping people because its nice to be nice but I decide how much information I give them based on my working experiences and witnessing the stupidity of others(at times). It's never been a financial decision which would be silly but a common sense one, I feel I have "duty of care" People never think its going to be them so they take risks. Why would you want to give them the green light to faff with a appliance?


I know how easy it is to make a mistake from my own, the times in the past i'v called back to a job because I couldn't remember if I tested something, I'm not so sure if you can get gasmans paranoia from following instructions on the net.


You mentioned you're a gas fitter I find it strange that your so trusting of others. I don't trust anybody, how many times have you found ventilation blocked in away to fool you, year after year on regular services:mad2: also I remember what it was like before regulation and it wasn't pretty.


Most of the deaths or explosions i'v witnessed have been due to simple mistakes or a moment of stupidity, I don't think any real gas fitter will apologise for being a bit boring or repetitive when it comes to gas safety, so if your not a RGI then jog on.

 

[poorman]

"It's never been a financial decision which would be silly but a common sense one"

Yer right

 

[Gary71]

"It's never been a financial decision which would be silly but a common sense one"

Yer right

Why would that be so hard to believe, it's a bit simplistic to assume it's a money ting, I'm a technician and theres not much money tidying up others faux pars.

Taking in to account the inherent risks with working on gas(albeit minimal in some peoples eyes) how could it ever be deemed safe to work on gas, book or forum led?

Any trade that involves a safety risk should be restricted because it makes it more difficult for those without basic understanding and hopefully prevents them from thinking it's ok to have a pop themselves.

What I do isn't rocket science but mistakes are very easy to make and dangers may not be recognised by the inexperienced.

 

[Sean27]

Can u send the link so I can pass on my gas safe details please thanks

 

[AWheating]

Can u send the link so I can pass on my gas safe details please thanks

hi mate, please send a private message to redsaw or gasman with your details if you want to gain access to the gas safe only forum.

 

[Bernie2]

Hmm! Risk is inherent in life, it is more a matter of trust. You cannot stop people doing things wrong. You can say nothing to them and just let them blow up a few houses just to find out they are wrong if you like. But education and information of the right kind may just divert a disaster for somebody. I often found customer blocked air grills and people who thought it okay to block them. What would you say to them? "Please do not block the grills?" or tell them why they should not block the grills and what size the grill should be?
You guys make it sound like your a car sales person who will not tell the customer where the brakes are in case they press the accelerator pedal.

 

[Dotty]

Hmm! Risk is inherent in life, it is more a matter of trust. You cannot stop people doing things wrong. You can say nothing to them and just let them blow up a few houses just to find out they are wrong if you like. But education and information of the right kind may just divert a disaster for somebody. I often found customer blocked air grills and people who thought it okay to block them. What would you say to them? "Please do not block the grills?" or tell them why they should not block the grills and what size the grill should be?
You guys make it sound like your a car sales person who will not tell the customer where the brakes are in case they press the accelerator pedal.

Oh. You're back.

Thought you'd given up on this. Take a friendly word of advice. Give up on this.

 

[solutions]

Hey guys I'll be dealing with the aweful power max 155x. Clients says it doesn't fire up for demand of hot water only.....any ideas!????

Cheers fellas.

Are the customers not getting hot water or is it not firing on hot water just want to clarify as not getting hot water is likely just a duff hot water hex pump. If its not firing it could be a number of things.

 

[Ray Stafford]

Are the customers not getting hot water or is it not firing on ho****er just want to clarify as not getting hot water is likely just a duff hot water hex pump. If its not firing it could be a number of things.

The post you are quoting is 10 months old. Probably sorted by now.

 

[solutions]

To avoid accidents inform people so they can recognise the dangers. Don't inform them and they can kill through ignorance. Most of the information on this forum can be gained elsewhere if people decide to look. Not being free with advice is just silly makes gas fitters look like a secret society.

In principle I understand where you are coming from however there is a big difference between educating someone about the dangers or risks associated with gas appliances and giving someone instructions on how to undertake a repair over a forum where without experience and training to guide the individual the information could be miss understood missinterpreted or just not followed correctly. A large proportion of modern gas appliances require sophisticated and expensive equipment to conclude repairs or replacement of parts to insure they are both installed and adjusted correctly. Even if a customer had the skills they could not safely complete the job. I would not want to give out information that could cause injury by its interpretation when misused. Despite my underlying desire to help people which is not driven by financial gain.
There are forum's out there on the giant internet where information and frequently misinformation is readily available and shared between individuals unqualified and unsafe to carry out the repair who readily admit they have carried out a repair or more frequently attempted and failed or worse still attempted and created more serious faults.
I wont participate in those forums, You are welcome too.

 

[Ermintrude]

Well if you had blocked the vent then the custard would be getting a lovely bit of paper from a duplicate pad, think AT RISK, switching appliance off and then charging to relight and correct the grill would be all the education most punters need.

 

[solutions]

Not knowing possibly causes more accidents than information. In the gsr industry people seem largely not knowing about safety and do not see the reason for danger until you tell them. But the Gas Safety Register is supposed to help ensure peoples safety but possibly only if they know what they are being kept safe from. If a person thinks getting in a gsr fitter is going to cost them far more that they can afford and they think the job is easy based on not knowing they will probably have a go themselves. That is not promoting safe practices. By giving out information you are warning them as to the dangers, if they then go ahead and still do it, that problem is theirs. You at least tried to warn them it was not simple. Anyway they can always buy Torreys or Viper books they have been available for years to the general public. A GSR fitters job is to promote safety not form a secret club.

When has anyone thought a job was easy because they did not know how to do it. I dont know how to change the cam belt on an engine I dont therefore assume it is easy. I could go on the internet and learn how to do it from some you tube videos and possibly attempt it. Will I have the working experience to feel that something is not right or spot that I have done something wrong or missed something out no. Your analogies are ridiculous and I can no longer see the point in your continued argument. Can you explain to me what you want the outcome from your posts to be? I can save you time typing and inform you if it will happen or not.

 

[Dotty]

He's been given a 2 week holiday for now. See how he views it when he comes back.

 

[SimonG]

He's been given a 2 week holiday for now. See how he views it when he comes back.

Anywhere nice?

 

[Dotty]

Anywhere nice?

Somewhere comtemplative I hope.......

 

[solutions]

The post you are quoting is 10 months old. Probably sorted by now.

Thanks Ray. Really should learn to read the dates on these brought back to life threads.

 

[malone]

hi, need help with a question, open flued appliances has an input rating of 7kw and 70kw gross.
Need to found know how to get this into a single figure!!!


Apparently it is 21!! can someone please tell me how they get this figure..

Hopefully this makes senses...
Thanks, new on here and got know else to ask..

 

[chris watkins]

hi, need help with a question, open flued appliances has an input rating of 7kw and 70kw gross.
Need to found know how to get this into a single figure!!!


Apparently it is 21!! can someone please tell me how they get this figure..

Hopefully this makes senses...
Thanks, new on here and got know else to ask..

Please have a look at what you have typed cos it makes no sense at all.

 

[Toxic Ted]

hi, need help with a question, open flued appliances has an input rating of 7kw and 70kw gross.
Need to found know how to get this into a single figure!!!


Apparently it is 21!! can someone please tell me how they get this figure..

Hopefully this makes senses...
Thanks, new on here and got know else to ask..

Lost me.

 

[malone]

Sorry guys it was a long day!!!
I'm trying to work out the ventilation need to an open flued appliance!! (gross)

I know to get nett I divide gross by 1.11 = net
Then -7(adventitious vent) and x by 5 gives me cmsq

But say if the appliance has a rating between 18kw and 22Kw. How do I get a figure to divide by 1.11???
Or am I missing something!!!

Thanks for reply's