Further to pipes showing green patches - 18mths after installation

[snowdrop]

I have now registered - but previous thread is closed therefore, as I cannot reply, I'm starting a new thread...

Rckape, thank you for your prompt response, very helpful.
Plumben, also thank you.

Your responses make sense to me, however….

I have contacted 2 other heating installers to request a written report.
But Oh dear!
I have only had a brief conversation on the phone with both:

One knew immediately the green was flux. But then tells me that I need the whole heating system flushed as the flux will also be on the inside of the pipes and will continue to cause corrosion to pipes and radiators.

The other didn’t mention flux. He said it could be a bad batch of pipes. They will come and check the quality of the pipes.

I don’t think the quality of pipes in the issue.

However now I am concerned about corrosion on the inside of pipes and radiators.
I am not sure with this conflicting information.
The system was flushed after the installation. Will that have flushed out all the internal flux? Or is there a possibility that the radiators and pipes could corrode internally.
If there is, then should I request the installers to flush the system again?

In addition:
Some of the green cannot be accessed – pipes are right up against the wall, down the wall through the floor and down behind the boiler.
If the green is not cleaned off will it continue to corrode the pipes?

I’m still trying to work this out with the installers.


Initial post under previous thread:
Pipes are showing a lot of corrosion, 18mths after installing a new heating system and water pipes, in airing cupboard. There is corrosion around most of the joins of the pipes. Also spots and patches of corrosion on pipes. There is also corrosion on the gas pipe to the boiler. The corrosion has been cleaned off as it is on the outside of the pipe.

The cold water pipe to the shower pump has already had 3 pinhole leaks – it seems the corrosion was on the outside of the pipe – but I’m not sure. The pipe has been replaced.

I have read about excessive flux causing corrosion where the pipes have been soldered. Could this have caused the corrosion around the joins? However I don’t understand what the other spots and patches of corrosion are.

Would any one be able to offer any more information about how the corrosion could have occurred.

So far the current remedy of the installer is to clean the pipes.
However:
In my view this is not a permanent solution
Will the corrosion come back?
Will more corrosion occur in the future?
If the corrosion is not cleaned off I am assuming the pipe will corrode through to cause a leak?
Would there be corrosion on the inside of the pipes?

What is the solution? Should ALL the pipes which are showing corrosion be changed?

 

[Rckape]

I think you can discount a bad batch of pipes. I heard of some poor quality imported copper that was fitted during the 60's and 70's (from the plumber I trained with - I'm not that old) but that was contaminated with iron which rusted causing pin holes.

If the system was flushed after the soldering then that would have flushed the flux out.

It sounds like the one plumber is trying to sell you a power flush. I'd get the original fitter back to repeat the flush if your at all unsure.

It would be good to clean off as much as possible. I think I mentioned on the other post about having seen very old pipes covered in green flux residue with no leaks (I've actually seen a joint on a pressurised heating circuit held on with only flux, the plumbers had forgotten to solder it!), but as its already caused a leak on your pipe it's definitely worth cleaning up.

 

[snowdrop]

Rckape you are so helpful
You make a valid point – I have had 3 leaks from green patches
Therefore I will assume that any green which is left will eventually corrode the pipes and cause a leak, even a small spot.
This, I suspect, could happen at any time in the future – in a years time or more

As much of the green has been cleaned off, but there is still green which cannot be accessed to clean, or that I have not seen. I cannot see all the pipes, especially round the back where I have found more of the green.

Should I not ask the installers to replace these pipes?
Otherwise I could have leaks going on into the future.

 

[plumben]

I think the best bet might be to forget about the original installers and get a reputable plumber who is Gas Safe to come out and take a look,
For anyone to put there name to it there going to want to flush the system, be it power flush or just a flush with chemicals

 

[plumben]

I'd also get them to inspect the hole system and install
as if the original installers where to lazy to get a wet rag and clean the pipes after soldering what else might they of not done or forgot

 

[snowdrop]

That doesn’t bode well.
I thought they were a reputable Gas Safe company as they are accredited on Checkatrade and TrustATrader and Worcester Bosch installers.
I had quotations from over a dozen companies and this one I thought would do the best job. They were not the cheapest.
It was only one engineer who worked on fitting the pipes, that was his only job.

 

[snowdrop]

I now see that the installers have done a very bad job with fitting the pipes - there is so much green.
Thank you forum for making this obvious to me.

When I asked the installers what the green is, and why I have the leaks, they said they did not know.
Initially they blamed hard water for the leaks – ie they have no responsibility – it was only 18mths after the installation. I said the previous pipes have been here for decade with the same hard water. Eventually they conceded and said it was a faulty pipe – but only after much arguing.

I’m still waiting for them to tell me it is flux and bad workmanship…. I wonder if they will!

I think this company should make good the work, so I am pursuing this with them.
But they argue so much.

 

[Best]

A lot of fluxes are very aggressive self cleaning acid based. Any left on pipes uncleaned will turn the pipe bright green.
Sounds like you have had a poor job of pipework.
I prefer fluxes that will not cause corrosion. I also clean the pipes and fittings after soldering once the joint has cooled a bit.
You can't be sure of plumbers registered with a boiler manufacturer. It means nothing really.

 

[SimonG]

Pet hate of mine. Shows a lazy worker. Takes no time to clean a joint once soldered.

 

[PhoenixServices]

Those pipes should be shiny once they are installed and only slowly dull down. Leaving flux everywhere is lazy and bad practice.