first person trying to knock me

[plumb_know]

attended job which was to:

- put in new stopcock as current one was not accessible, it was on galvanised steel
- fit new flush valve and float valve but cistern was stuck to wall
- fix dripping hot tap

i dont charge per hour and charged flat rate of £290 for this including materials as i thought the galvanised may have been tricky to undo and cistern was stuck to wall could have taken time getting off. customer was sent quote in email 3 days before work was carried out.

job went very smoothly and i was out in 4 hours customer happy and left all neat and tidy. 3 days later customer emails asking for break down of materials which came to £60, 5 days later invoice now 1 day over due i get sent this:

Thanks for getting back to me
I am more than happy to pay for the work that you carried out and I understand that you have to allow for problems along the way
I also understand that you have to make a living.
Having received a breakdown of the work carried out do you feel that £290 is a reasonable amount to charge
Would it be possible for you to review the amount of your invoice to an amount that is agreeable to both parties please
I would like to pay your invoice today so an early response would be appreciated

which i replied with this:
Sorry,


But the price was agreed before the work was carried out, the price was given to you in writing via email and stated what it included. you received this quote days before the work was carried out. My price reflects that i do not charge per hour and i allowed for problems of working on galvanised steel and that your cistern was stuck to the wall, plumbers with less experience would have taken longer than me to carry out this work.


In another circumstance if this job would have taken 12hours would you have had emailed asking for the price to be increased?


Even if this job is worked out as a hourly rate it would come to less than £60 per hour which is still £12 less per hour than **** which is a local based plumbing company.


I have never had to take a customer to court for late payment but if needs be i will take this route, and extra charges for my time will and fees will be added to the bill

What you guys think? think it cheek myself and that the price was not even that bad i am based in kent 30mins from london

 

[bassmonster]

Nothing winds me up more than a customer trying to renegotiate for a job after work is completed. Your reply is spot on.

 

[newcastle phill]

I think cheeky barstard's
That really ****es me off that does.
I make it crystal clear that all monies due are payable on completion. I never invoice and allow grace and seldom work for other businesses or landlords.

Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[SimonG]

Number 1. Don't get wound up.
Number 2. Don't explain too much.

Just email back saying that you gave him an estimate, the works were completed and the invoice is now overdue and if not paid immediately will incur a late payment charge.

Keep it simple and emotionless. Always remember if it does go to court you want the court to see you as the good guy who somebody is trying to screw over.

Then buy a punch bag and take out your frustrations on that.

 

[turnpin]

Funny how they never mentioned anything about you overheads ..insurance..fuel ...etc etc I think you gave a sound reply....keep us informed...regards Turnpin:wink:

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Funny how they never mentioned anything about you overheads ..insurance..fuel ...etc etc I think you gave a sound reply....keep us informed...regards Turnpin:wink:

what about years of experience so no problems along the way

 

[Best]

Did the customer at the time of the emailed quote come back with an email of acceptance?
The bit I find hilarious is the customer asking would you "review the amount on your invoice to an amount that is acceptable to both parties?" !!!
There is no such rule as an invoice amount that has to be acceptable to the customer (within reason obviously). If the amount is deemed as fair and reasonable then invoice is valid.
Small Claims court route if follow up letter and statements don't get anywhere

 

[bassmonster]

As requested by customer, review the invoice and knock a pound off.... :-D

 

[Ollieg]

Review and add £12 a hour.

 

[Best]

As requested by customer, review the invoice and knock a pound off.... :-D

.... or you could just **** them off a bit by saying you reviewed the invoice and have discovered you forgot to charge them for something, but as a courtesy to them, will not ask for the extra. :smile:

 

[Stanios]

Did the customer at the time of the emailed quote come back with an email of acceptance?
The bit I find hilarious is the customer asking would you "review the amount on your invoice to an amount that is acceptable to both parties?" !!!
There is no such rule as an invoice amount that has to be acceptable to the customer (within reason obviously). If the amount is deemed as fair and reasonable then invoice is valid.
Small Claims court route if follow up letter and statements don't get anywhere

I think the fact that work was carried out shows that whatever price/ terms were provided was accepted by the customer without the need to sign or say anything. He has no leg to stand on, threaten him with legal proceedings see how he likes them apples.

 

[T & H Plumbing]

I don't think mention if court action should have been included what you put before was great leave the court action bit put then wait for the response if the response isn't what you wanted them threaten court action

 

[plumb_know]

Thanks everyone nice to let off some steam, yes Best she emailed back asking when i could do it.
I also gave some tips whilst on site and advise on her galvanised supply pipe. i will see if i receive payment in next 24hours otherwise i will start proceeding through small claims and notify with a break down of my cost for compensation due to time wasted doing this.

I will definitely be looking into getting formal contract written up for future, luckily its only a small job so can afford to wait for the money. Anyone know of good site that explains wording or template for contracts or best to seek solicitor help?

i will let you all know how it is resolved.

thanks

 

[c.gas]

I'm having issues with a letting agent that owes me about 1K, all invoices are overdue and he's now said he has an issue with 2 jobs as there is a leak that wasnt there before hand, he has only now mentioned this after the invoices are overdue. Both leaks are down to the tenant leaving filling loop open, I've come to do a gas safety cert, mentioned the filling loop issue and got authorisation to proceed with an extra job to re-pressurise expansion vessel, leaks due to damage caused by the filing loop being left open is not down to me but I'm getting the blame.

I've said once the invoices have been paid then I'll be happy to go and rectify at an extra cost but getting no response. Small claims court is my next step

 

[plumb_know]

yes luckily this is the first problem i have had since i started up 2 years ago, she even had the cheek to say she has found her plumber as i walked out the door.

hope you get it sorted, just taking it as a wake up call to get all the loose ends sorted for if this happens again i will be prepared.

 

[plumben]

When ever a customer asks you to look at a price review it knock it down how ever they go about it, when a price was already estimated/quoted I always say yeah no problem. Then come back to them saying actually upon looking over the price I've undercharge you as I forgot to include this or that so the price is actually X amount more or we can just stick to the original, the look on there face is always priceless

 

[WaterTight]

wasn't a landlord was it?

 

[tomplumb83]

Be nice and just send them a letter asking for your money.
I'd be interested how much they want to pay you though. Id rather do a deal with them
Because... Is it me or does anybody get the impression this customer has no intention of paying anything? A stalling tactic until they've convinced theirself not to pay. Sounding you out

 

[1Steven]

:59: :57:

 

[Best]

As it now appears the customer accepted the quote and after job completed asked for invoice breakdown and then money off the bill, all down in writing (email) - she has left a paper trail.
No allegations of bad workmanship or any problems means she has no chance in court.
In all seriousness, as others have said, your reply was excellent and you need to keep it that way, - polite and just asking for payment. Send repeat letter/invoices again before ever a letter to mention Small Claims will be next. That way the court will see you tried to resolve it

 

[lame plumber]

sometimes charging an hourly rate is easier to justify the costs, I tend to offer estimates as i explain if the job is done quicker i will knock the price but longer and I will add to the price. If they want it quoted then of course I add contingency and explain this to them, but for small jobs I only ever do hourly rates.

why not get them to look at the which website on plumbing charges, I bet your cheaper than on there. A customer recently winged I was too expensive, so in the end I left rather than thump him. Later on he called, apologised and said I was within the which price bracket (just) and paid up

 

[1Steven]

Use pimlico plumbers website

 

[plumb_know]

i used a local firms cost just up the road from her, but she was not interested in others prices all of a sudden. I have received payment now though. i would advise any one else in same situation not to mention court at least for a few emails later as this did get her back up a bit and could of caused the customers to become more awkward (as BEST mentioned a few posts back). But learning process and have the money in the bank now .
Hopefully it will be a few more years before someone tries it again.

Thanks for the support

 

[mfgs]

Glad you got it sorted and got your money.

 

[Best]

Well done for standing up for yourself! And nice that you got your money.

 

[hammers4spanner]

I had opposite to this yesterday, mornings worth of work rumbled over was a pain in the arris.

it looked easy job so thought quick 100 quid cash job done . Complete opposite started 9 am thought be done by twelve ended up finishing 2 o clock. Never charged anymore as it was on a price shot myself in the foot but hey ho just got on with it never charged anymore.

Spin it around tho if i was there an hour and took 100 of the customer blimey i'd be a rip off merchant

 

[Stanios]

I had opposite to this yesterday, mornings worth of work rumbled over was a pain in the arris.

it looked easy job so thought quick 100 quid cash job done . Complete opposite started 9 am thought be done by twelve ended up finishing 2 o clock. Never charged anymore as it was on a price shot myself in the foot but hey ho just got on with it never charged anymore.

Spin it around tho if i was there an hour and took 100 of the customer blimey i'd be a rip off merchant

What was the job?

 

[dave1]

Glad you got it sorted.

 

[Phil]

You got the money plumb know but that customer will make it her life's mission to bad mouth you, she feels ripped off and intimidated and paid out of fear of court action.

I think your right about not mentioning court for a while.
Was this a single lady living on her own?

 

[oz-plumber]

You got the money plumb know but that customer will make it her life's mission to bad mouth you, she feels ripped off and intimidated and paid out of fear of court action.

Versus, her telling everyone she knows that you are an easy target, and if you question, object, haggle after the job has been completed, you will get the job done cheaper.

About 2 years ago, I wiped a fair percentage of my customer base because of this reason.
Got sick of justifying bills for customers who only wanted to get work done at a cheaper price - for their own satisfaction.

Employ someone and see if you can send them out to jobs for less than it costs you to employ them - things go downhill very fast.

 

[hammers4spanner]

What was the job?

Toilet and basin