Combi boiler for a 4 bathroom house - Advice please

[timmyjane]

Problem. I want to convert my loft, huge cold water tank in loft and hot tank where I need to put stairs. I need 4 showers. Good water pressure to the house but not tested, comes out so forcefully in kitchen that the stop tap needed turning down a lot.

Current system not good enough for 2 showers.

A combi system I have seen seems to give a flow rate of 45 litres a minute at 60C, the ACV Heatmaster 85 Combi condensing boiler, it could go in a downstairs cupboard.

Anyone have this system in, or knows how much it is.

Are there any alternatives more widely available (worried about servicing), looked at Glow worm ultra power 100/170 sx, has a good flow rate of 36 litres a minute but at 35C, is there anything else out there, think the ACV may be very costly.

Advice very appreciated.

​

 

[Ermintrude]

He's got a 63mm supply doh!

 

[timmyjane]

please explain where you are going to get 45L for the hot water and as much for the cold water supply ?

Until I get tests done Tuesday regarding the incoming water pressure and flow rate I cant answer that, but as mentioned the water pressure coming in is so powerful (have to turn stop tap down or it blasts out) that I believe I have a good supply, no idea how many litres a minute that will turn out to be, be interesting on Tuesday when I find out, if its 20 or something then I need to find a solution.

Quite new to this area, but seems to me if I have an excellent supply coming in and I restrict that supply by putting in a boiler system that can only heat water and realease at 11 - 20 litres a minute (not the capability of the ACV with capacity of 46L utilising the water from the water already stored and heated), I have little chance of more than 2 showers working adequately at the same time.

If it means two systems, a great combi with hot water supply storage facility (meaning less instant heating time) or an unvented system with a pretty good boiler and rapid recovery heat system of some nature, i dont mind.

All I know at minute is conventional system is not working even though mains water pressure great, got water tanks all over the place taking up space and stopping me doing a loft conversion.

The ACV unit mentioned is being fitted in domestic applications (video on U Tube) so would presume even if 46l is slight overkill, better to have a system in place that has more capacity not less. Gas inlet connection required seems to be 3/4 for the device which (not an expert, but think is standard domestic supply size).

Truth is I think the ACV having looked at all advice, as nice as it may be, is probably overkill and too expensive for what I need. Non the less, I need solutions that will run at least 3 showers and a basin simultaneously and am researching those.

Any advice along meeting the solution (as not a plumber) welcome.

 

[timmyjane]

He's got a 63mm supply doh!

:daisy: She!

 

[SimonG]

:daisy: She!

Oops

 

[wetdrip]

Remember the T.S.S. croppie suggests is 300 kilo's fully loaded.Check the load in your loft eaves etc.

 

[Dotty]

Part and parcel of the checks the G3 should be making anyway.

 

[Centralheatking]

Hi Timmyjane - your enquiry is a good one and driven by the need for space

Combis save householders loads of space esp in lofts - however
1. Combis only suit flats and small homes - 1x bog 3 beds
2. They go wrong
3. Are recommended by numpties who cannot design and fit a proper system
4. There should be a thread about this as we get many questions exactly like this
the answer is all the same

Do report back about what you have chosen to do as this forum thrives on question &
answer Centralheatking

Problem. I want to convert my loft, huge cold water tank in loft and hot tank where I need to put stairs. I need 4 showers. Good water pressure to the house but not tested, comes out so forcefully in kitchen that the stop tap needed turning down a lot.

Current system not good enough for 2 showers.

A combi system I have seen seems to give a flow rate of 45 litres a minute at 60C, the ACV Heatmaster 85 Combi condensing boiler, it could go in a downstairs cupboard.

Anyone have this system in, or knows how much it is.

Are there any alternatives more widely available (worried about servicing), looked at Glow worm ultra power 100/170 sx, has a good flow rate of 36 litres a minute but at 35C, is there anything else out there, think the ACV may be very costly.

Advice very appreciated.

​

 

[Centralheatking]

But you cannot cuddle them and have fun either CHK

At least the acv keep you warm lmao

 

[timmyjane]

Remember the T.S.S. croppie suggests is 300 kilo's fully loaded.Check the load in your loft eaves etc.

Already have large cold water tank up there, but dont know if loads are different in other parts of the loft.

Am interested in getting other quotes from appropriately registered members. In terms of quotes, for kind of installation I have in mind (wishing to meet building regs etc with anything I do) what registration would you advise I look for.

Wont just be the boiler change, but removing old system, rerouting pipework where necessary. Putting two toilets in connecting to close by 1ft away soil pipe (no connection currently in). At least one shower with no current connection in place nor water supply to room. Another shower where I may (depending on where stairs end up) be able to connect to current supply feeding the existing sink. Maybe a few extras.

Another question: -

Cost of decent cylinder (in loft) and decent boiler possibly ground floor probably will be around the 1.8k+ mark with installation cost additional.

Providing ACV 85tc could be connected to standard domestic supply for gas and water (enquiring with ACV re regs) with it being one compact unit would installation and connections be easier from plumbers point of view (and therefore install cost) likely to be far less? Would go in a place that adjoins outside wall for outlet for any necessary flues.

Still got some reseach to do on this one, if on ground floor would reaching the loft with water supply hinder performance, read a few things about not being able to put pumps on pressured unvented systems?


Thanks

 

[Centralheatking]

Right in Rays back yard ! CHK

Sorry just getting used to terminology and heating/water systems and online forums, what do you mean RM.

Im in Bosham on South Coast between Havant and Chi, PO18

 

[Centralheatking]

Combi in this set up no way - but hey sorry Francy its you 1st post please introduce yourself and join our society please - you are really welcome . We are kittens really but watch out for CRoppie - he is industrial - thats what his MRs told me ! CHK

Not if the right combi is installed the right way[/QUOTE]

 

[Ermintrude]

Give ACV a call, get rep to come and see you also get ideal or oso to give suggestions once ACV have given design. The 85 tc will do fine on 20mbar. Will possibly need upgrade on size if meter is a way off?

 

[Centralheatking]

Your project is way beyond any cowboy outfit, and might defeat some one only set ups.

As you are 5 hours South of us I would contact Ray Stafford about who could handle this
contract that comes into his shops CHK

Already have large cold water tank up there, but dont know if loads are different in other parts of the loft.

Am interested in getting other quotes from appropriately registered members. In terms of quotes, for kind of installation I have in mind (wishing to meet building regs etc with anything I do) what registration would you advise I look for.

Wont just be the boiler change, but removing old system, rerouting pipework where necessary. Putting two toilets in connecting to close by 1ft away soil pipe (no connection currently in). At least one shower with no current connection in place nor water supply to room. Another shower where I may (depending on where stairs end up) be able to connect to current supply feeding the existing sink. Maybe a few extras.

Another question: -

Cost of decent cylinder (in loft) and decent boiler possibly ground floor probably will be around the 1.8k+ mark with installation cost additional.

Providing ACV 85tc could be connected to standard domestic supply for gas and water (enquiring with ACV re regs) with it being one compact unit would installation and connections be easier from plumbers point of view (and therefore install cost) likely to be far less? Would go in a place that adjoins outside wall for outlet for any necessary flues.

Still got some reseach to do on this one, if on ground floor would reaching the loft with water supply hinder performance, read a few things about not being able to put pumps on pressured unvented systems?


Thanks

 

[Dotty]

Timmyjane (Miss?)

As CHK inferred this is an interesting project and one you really, really need a good guy to do. Get a few quotes and come back to us with the proposals being made, we can give you our views bearing in mind we haven't had eyes on the job.

you couldn't do any worse than posting a thread in the 'I'm looking for a plumber / gas engineer' section of these forums remembering to include your location. [DLMURL="http://www.ukplumbersforums.co.uk/im-looking-plumber-gas-engineer/"]I'm looking for a Plumber or Gas Engineer[/DLMURL]

 

[Howsie]

We are always happy to provide you with an estimate or just chat through your options.

 

[timmyjane]

Hi - the unit I initially enquired about is a combination unit in essence! but it does have a 170 litre water store so does have the facility to have 170 litres of heated water before I have to rely on the instant heat facility. It is also one of the most efficient boilers on the market as it condenses (reuses the waste heat from both water and central heating system). A tank in tank sytem meaning gas used and cost to heat therefore less I think. From all I have read it seems to have the capacity for a decent flow rate 46 litres a minute providing I have a good water pressure and inflow rate. It will also take up less space than a decent boiler and good capacity tank, with possibly less install cost if it can connect to domestic supply (gas pipe 5 ft away from where I may install it).

So is it a hybrid that comes up with a good solution to space problems, not sure, but not willing to just discount it as its classed as a 'combi'. Any combi without such a hot water store in my limited opinion so far would not work just based on flow rates quoted on standard ones. It seems to stand to reason if something quotes (as most standard combis do) it is able to heat and release water at between 10 and 20 litres a minute then it probably will not allow me to run the dishwasher in the morning, kids to be washing faces in sink me husband and lodger in the shower all at the same time in the morning without some kind of compromise.

So at the moment not discounting (what appears to be a good hybrid solution) as advice is clearly mixed on this one. Issue is potential price.

Thanks for advice so far, all been great.:vanish:

 

[Gray0689]

Hi - the unit I initially enquired about is a combination unit in essence! but it does have a 170 litre water store so does have the facility to have 170 litres of heated water before I have to rely on the instant heat facility. It is also one of the most efficient boilers on the market as it condenses (reuses the waste heat from both water and central heating system). A tank in tank sytem meaning gas used and cost to heat therefore less I think. From all I have read it seems to have the capacity for a decent flow rate 46 litres a minute providing I have a good water pressure and inflow rate. It will also take up less space than a decent boiler and good capacity tank, with possibly less install cost if it can connect to domestic supply (gas pipe 5 ft away from where I may install it).

So is it a hybrid that comes up with a good solution to space problems, not sure, but not willing to just discount it as its classed as a 'combi'. Any combi without such a hot water store in my limited opinion so far would not work just based on flow rates quoted on standard ones. It seems to stand to reason if something quotes (as most standard combis do) it is able to heat and release water at between 10 and 20 litres a minute then it probably will not allow me to run the dishwasher in the morning, kids to be washing faces in sink me husband and lodger in the shower all at the same time in the morning without some kind of compromise.

So at the moment not discounting (what appears to be a good hybrid solution) as advice is clearly mixed on this one. Issue is potential price.

Thanks for advice so far, all been great.:vanish:

What is the boiler make & model?

 

[timmyjane]

What is the boiler make & model?

ACV HeatMaster Gas Condensing Combination Boiler 85tc. Also do a 35tc which is a littler smaller but does not have comparable flow rate.

 

[Gray0689]

ACV HeatMaster Gas Condensing Combination Boiler 85tc. Also do a 35tc which is a littler smaller but does not have comparable flow rate.

Lol sorry thought you was on about another boiler

 

[timmyjane]

Lol sorry thought you was on about another boiler

You thought early on this would do the job, now you know the specific model, is opinion still good if I can bear cost?

 

[Gray0689]

You thought early on this would do the job, now you know the specific model, is opinion still good if I can bear cost?

Yes if you can have the budget it's the best on market acv is Rolls Royce stuff
As said get on to acv and ask there advice they will give you a help they may even say the 35 is big enough as they are super quick re heat times

 

[Dotty]

ACV HeatMaster Gas Condensing Combination Boiler 85tc. Also do a 35tc which is a littler smaller but does not have comparable flow rate.

Which you will require a commercial guy for. And as I said before - we're expensive!

I would imagine you currently have a u6 meter. The ACV requires 8m3 of gas per hour. assuming you also have a gas cooker or range this meter WILL be undersized. You're going to require a u16 or a g10 meter. An additional cost!

I can't even find a price online for the ACV other than the usual 'email us for a quote' type sites so that tells me you'd be looking at splashing out £3-4k for one.

There are cheaper solutions that will give you what you want.

 

[Dotty]

But as said by Gray, it is a decent boiler.

 

[Rickster123]

View Profile: Linkyplumb - Plumbing Forum | Plumbing Advice | Plumbers Forums | A forum for plumbers advice in the UK

I think linky is quite close to you and a very knowledgable chap. Might be worth dropping him a pm for another quote.

 

[Gray0689]

Yes if you can have the budget it's the best on market acv is Rolls Royce stuff
As said get on to acv and ask there advice they will give you a help they may even say the 35 is big enough as they are super quick re heat times

I sent you a private message with an email address of a bloke I know at acv give him a shout may be able to give you advice

 

[timmyjane]

Which you will require a commercial guy for. And as I said before - we're expensive!

I would imagine you currently have a u6 meter. The ACV requires 8m3 of gas per hour. assuming you also have a gas cooker or range this meter WILL be undersized. You're going to require a u16 or a g10 meter. An additional cost!

I can't even find a price online for the ACV other than the usual 'email us for a quote' type sites so that tells me you'd be looking at splashing out £3-4k for one.

There are cheaper solutions that will give you what you want.

No gas cooker but have one gas fire. will check meters out. I know someone was quoted in a thread (not this one £2100 for the tc35 plus install) i think DIYnot.com. Be interesting to see cost of bigger unit. Its the space it frees up that is interesting.

 

[Dotty]

£2100 for the tc35 plus install

:whatchutalkingabout

 

[timmyjane]

meant the cost of unit £2100. Plus installation total cost for guy was 4k but no idea what pipe work he had done.

 

[Dotty]

Was thinking to myself either that guy's on a promise or he'd seriously muffed his costings up!

 

[Ermintrude]

Which you will require a commercial guy for. And as I said before - we're expensive!

I would imagine you currently have a u6 meter. The ACV requires 8m3 of gas per hour. assuming you also have a gas cooker or range this meter WILL be undersized. You're going to require a u16 or a g10 meter. An additional cost!

I can't even find a price online for the ACV other than the usual 'email us for a quote' type sites so that tells me you'd be looking at splashing out £3-4k for one.

There are cheaper solutions that will give you what you want.

Oooops. I said 85 in previous .... 35 is 4m3 85 is about 9 as above ? But get a cowboy in and he will fit it on a u6 with 15mm supply and save u £350..Be fine. He said....
It's expensive but will do what u need. Meter upgrades can be negotiated with suppliers. If you move suppliers u can sometimes strike it lucky.

Don't discount cheaper options but not much will match up?