Advice on flue through fake window

[Nick88]

Good afternoon,

I was hoping someone could advise regarding the regulations around flue terminations through a 'fake' window.

We have a mixed-use development with a ground floor commercial unit and residential above. To keep with the style, a 'fake' window has been installed to the rear of the commercial unit - essentially a window shape but infilled with panelling rather than a window. The idea was to utilise this panelling for the flue termination to avoid core drilling the new brickwork as the next tenant may not require a flue, however it appears this may be in contradiction with Approved Document J, diagram 34 Note 1, where a flue shouldn't be within 150/300mm of "an opening into the building fabric formed for the purpose of accommodating a built-in element, such as a window frame".

This opening will never house a window whilst the flue is installed, it was purely for aesthetics. Has anyone come across this before, and what are our options? Is there a certain product/sealing process that needs to be carried out to allow the flue to pass through the panelling? So long as the panelling is of a suitable heat resistance, I can't personally see an issue with this other than not conforming with this Note - we have sufficient distance to all other restrictions shown on diagram 34.

Thanks in advance, Nick.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yep your fine I would say

 

[Nick88]

Yep your fine I would say

Thanks Shaun, out of interest are you Gas Safe Registered? We have been told that this isn't possible, but if there are Gas Safe engineers on here that believe this would be OK, I will have to ensure we get a second opinion on site.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Yes fully if the window doesn’t open / there isn’t a window eg boarded up it’s not a window and it’s never going to be changed into a window I can’t see an issue

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Will leave this here

 

[Deleted member 120897]

Manufacturers technical helpline might be worth a shot.

 

[Nick88]

Manufacturers technical helpline might be worth a shot.

Thank you - I looked through the manual with nothing conclusive, I will try their helpline tomorrow.

 

[Last Plumber]

Thanks Shaun, out of interest are you Gas Safe Registered? We have been told that this isn't possible, but if there are Gas Safe engineers on here that believe this would be OK, I will have to ensure we get a second opinion on site.

I agree with @ShaunCorbs here. If it has purposely been infilled I think it is acceptable.

 

[Chuck]

"... an opening into the building fabric formed for the purpose of accommodating a built-in element" is not referring to a window but a hole that has been cut through the brickwork to accommodate a frame, which is exactly what is being proposed. I think there is a risk that this may come back to bite you if you allow it. I doubt it's a big risk, but a problem with things done in unconventional ways is that they attract attention.

 

[Last Plumber]

"... an opening into the building fabric formed for the purpose of accommodating a built-in element" is not referring to a window but a hole that has been cut through the brickwork to accommodate a frame, which is exactly what is being proposed. I think there is a risk that this may come back to bite you if you allow it. I'm not sure its a big risk, but the problem with doing things in unconventional ways it that they do attract attention.

I know where you're coming from. This is from Doc J:

opening here means an openable element, such as an openable window, or a fixed opening such as an air vent. However, in addition, the outlet should not be nearer than 150mm (fanned draught) or 300mm (natural draught) to an opening into the building fabric formed for the purpose of accommodating a built-in element, such as a window frame.

What are your thoughts on the 150 distance to the opening in the fabric as opposed to 300 mm to the actual openings (if they did exist).
Do you think it could be related to turbulence for example?
If so, what if the infill panel was flush with the wall surface?

I am just curious as to your thoughts @Chuck on this as it's one of 'those' areas again for me. I read the regs but want to know 'why'? There must be a reason.
Would it be the same as windows bricked up to avoid window tax for example. Some are flush and I would class those as gone but I see a lot were the reveal/opening in fabric is still there. Would you still need to terminate a flue 150mm away from those or do you think it boils down to how they are closed off? is one method temporary and one permanent?