Advice on flue through fake window

[Nick88]

"... an opening into the building fabric formed for the purpose of accommodating a built-in element" is not referring to a window but a hole that has been cut through the brickwork to accommodate a frame, which is exactly what is being proposed. I think there is a risk that this may come back to bite you if you allow it. I doubt it's a big risk, but a problem with things done in unconventional ways is that they attract attention.

Thanks Chuck, this is where I feel it gets a little grey - most of the termination restrictions are clear cut and you can see the reasoning. But when this is specified and there is no clear reasoning for all eventualities, I feel it needs to be challenged - but I'm unsure how to get a definitive answer without being gas safe registered and obtaining direct advice from them.

I have currently requested the plumber that is concerned to do exactly that, hopefully he can obtain some comfort that this is OK; likewise, if not, hopefully there is a work around.

EDIT: Thanks Last Plumber, I think I'm on the same wavelength with you here - there are a few things that I'd prefer to challenge/ask why, rather than just take it for gospel! Making the panel flush could be an easy workaround, thanks for that.

 

[Chuck]

I am just curious as to your thoughts @Chuck on this as it's one of 'those' areas again for me. I read the regs but want to know 'why'? There must be a reason.

I've never managed to find where the Building Regs Advisory Cttee publish their minutes and if there was ever any consultation on this point I'm not aware of it.

So, your guess is as good as, or better than, mine. Mine is that whenever you have a frame of one material in a wall of another, e.g. aluminium window frame in a brickwork wall, you have a gap all round that needs sealing and it is very difficult (due to weathering and differential thermal expansion) to make a seal that is airtight and permanent. It would also be difficult for a GSR to establish that the frame was leak tight during the course of a routine inspection.

The note that we are puzzling over is worded in a very specific way to cover a very specific case, which makes me wonder if it was inserted in reaction to a particular incident.

 

[king of pipes]

Guidance from Gas safe would be your best option here as it's not a normal scenario beware though it may well not be the answer you want to hear , If I was installing it I would treat it as a window if it has a frame even if it is not openable, remove the glass and frame brick it up it's then it's a wall, this is a photo of a boiler flue I went to on a breakdown the flue gases damaged the timber the glass wasn't great either with putty missing The boiler was replaced a new flue with a plume kit fitted . Kop

 

[Last Plumber]

There's a good point. Could you not take it through the fake window and use a plume kit to take the terminal up and away from the opening in the building fabric?

Thoughts on that?

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Don’t see the point as a plume kit doesn’t overcome the regs it’s only for nuisance

 

[Last Plumber]

Don’t see the point as a plume kit doesn’t overcome the regs it’s only for nuisance

It's an extended termination point for flue gases. It isn't just for nuisance. It takes the flue terminal to a new position where the gases escaping are away from something such as an opening into a building or an internal corner.

For example:
You could use one to take the terminal up above an opening in order to prevent the flue gases entering that opening.

They were designed to overcome problems with terminal positions. There are many instances where a flue termination point would not be a nuisance but would present a potential danger.

That is only my view on it of course.

 

[Knappers]

I don't get why this is even a discussion.
It's not a window, it doesn't and can't open, it doesn't vent into the building.
I might be more cautious if the terminal was going to be right next to it as its reasonable to think this could easily be converted to a window.
But through it is fine!
Ultimately tho its up to the installer, obviously you can't make the installer fit it if they think otherwise.
If you spoke to two different techs at gassafe then you could get two different answers as it's not always black and white.
Either way, you shouldn't worry about having it go through the panel, no reasonable engineer is going to condemn it for this.
For arguments sake, let's just stop calling it a fake window and call it a decorative panel?

 

[Knappers]

It's an extended termination point for flue gases. It isn't just for nuisance. It takes the flue terminal to a new position where the gases escaping are away from something such as an opening into a building or an internal corner.

For example:
You could use one to take the terminal up above an opening in order to prevent the flue gases entering that opening.

They were designed to overcome problems with terminal positions. There are many instances where a flue termination point would not be a nuisance but would present a potential danger.

That is only my view on it of course.

I think the point was it doesn't help with regs in this case as would only ever reduce clearance.

 

[ShaunCorbs]

Or facade

 

[Knappers]

Just want to make the point (and get in a little rant as i sooo like to do) to other gas guys, the way i see it...
An engineer is not a box ticker that tiptoes around every regulation, they're often open to interpretation and we can make a call or even completely contravene a regulation provided that what we do meets or exceeds the standard of the regulation.
It's literally writen in every reg before almost everything else!
It's clear in this example that the provision about openings is to stop accidentally making an installation unsafe by changing a 'window'.
I'd say its impossible to accidentally fit a window in an opening that contains a flue and so - that's that.