Towel Rail only half heating

[MajicalMaj]

Hi all,

I wondered if you could please give me some advice in regards to a towel rail we have just had fitted. This rail is only heating up the top half and not the bottom.

This is quite a long towel rail thats been installed in our bathroom. The rail has been installed so the 2 inlets for the pipes and the valves are at the top of the unit so they come out of the ceiling. We had this installed 'professionally', however the plumber that done it wasn't very professional and after he'd put his foot through the ceiling the whole relationship went downhill. Now he's been paid he won't visit us to look at the issue we are having - hindsight says we shouldn't have paid him, however the rail was hot all over at the time!

We have bled this rail over 20 times thinking this was only air in the system and once bled the whole rail is nice and hot, however it doesn't last and goes back to only the top half being hot and the bottom half cold.

The rail is also connected to the hot water side of our combination boiler and we still get our normal amount amount of hot water, so I can't see it being the boiler at fault.

Is there anything else we can do, or is there something that could be causing this?

thanks in advance.

Matt

 

[centralheatking]

Hi Maj, I think you ought to be a bit concerned.
1. Your heating system has little to do with the hot water network on a combi system
2. The heating system ..rads system inc. rail etc ought not a part of the hot water supply
3. Hot Water system must really be a separate system
4. Just to confirm your post please post a picture of the install of the towel rad
then we can start to help you..its not the end of the world but seems very wrong at first pass.
centralheatking

 

[MajicalMaj]

Hi Maj, I think you ought to be a bit concerned.
1. Your heating system has little to do with the hot water network on a combi system
2. The heating system ..rads system inc. rail etc ought not a part of the hot water supply
3. Hot Water system must really be a separate system
4. Just to confirm your post please post a picture of the install of the towel rad
then we can start to help you..its not the end of the world but seems very wrong at first pass.
centralheatking

Hi Centralheatking

thanks for the reply.

So here's some extra info that might or might not help. We are currently renovating a house and because of this we have no heating and therefore nothing attached to that side of the boiler. The boiler, hot water tank, pipes, etc are all only 6 months old. I know for a fact that the towel rail has been put on the hot water side of the boiler as the heating side is still switched off. I did take a look online about this and there seemed to be a difference of opinion about whether a towel rail should be put on the hot water side of a boiler or not, so I haven't really challenge this decision.

If this is the case, then why on earth did the plumber do this!?

I've also added a picture of the top of the towel rail and also a quick picture of our boiler, which is a Worcester bosch. When we bleed the towel rail the pressure drops and we have to open 2 valves to bring it up again.

thanks again

Maj

 

[Brambles]

From your photograph - I presume that this is a system and not a combination boiler. If it is a system boiler you will have a hot water storage tank somewhere - upstairs from what I can see of the pipework.

Can you post a picture of the tank and pipework - ideally so we can see how the radiator has been plumbed in to the DHW circuit

 

[MajicalMaj]

From your photograph - I presume that this is a system and not a combination boiler. If it is a system boiler you will have a hot water storage tank somewhere - upstairs from what I can see of the pipework.

Can you post a picture of the tank and pipework - ideally so we can see how the radiator has been plumbed in to the DHW circuit

Hi Brambles,

thanks for the message. We were led to believe it was a combi but I defer to your experience on that.

So more info. We are in a bungalow, so no upstairs. The hot water tank was installed next to the boiler (please see attached pictures). I've tried to show as much as I can in regards the pipework. I've added a red square to show you where the pipework for the towel rail was added.

Maj

 

[Chalked]

Your towel rail can be connected to the hot water circuit . Ie, the circuit that heats the hot water cylinder.
you have two problems.
1. the towel rail will only get hot when the cylinder is calling for heat. Once satisfied, it will turn off and you have no heat to the towel rail. So it wil come on very sporadically.
2 connecting the pipework to the top.as heat rises, the rad ( when on) will bass the bottom tubes and short circuit back into the return. This can be helped by installing a dip tube on the flow side. Bit it will never heat the entire rail.

 

[centralheatking]

Your towel rail can be connected to the hot water circuit . Ie, the circuit that heats the hot water cylinder.
you have two problems.
1. the towel rail will only get hot when the cylinder is calling for heat. Once satisfied, it will turn off and you have no heat to the towel rail. So it wil come on very sporadically.
2 connecting the pipework to the top.as heat rises, the rad ( when on) will bass the bottom tubes and short circuit back into the return. This can be helped by installing a dip tube on the flow side. Bit it will never heat the entire rail.

This is a very old system plan dating back to the 1950s passing hot water thro a bathroom radiator...it has no place 70 years later. centralheatking...your towel rad install is nuts
in my opinion chking

 

[MajicalMaj]

This is a very old system plan dating back to the 1950s passing hot water thro a bathroom radiator...it has no place 70 years later. centralheatking

thanks all for your replies.

so base don what you have seen, do you think I need to get this moved to the Central Heating side of the boiler? We do plan to have underfloor heating in about a year, so not sure if that will impact that when it comes to fitting it?

It would sound to me that there is not other way to get this towel rail to heat up?

 

[Chalked]

This is a very old system plan dating back to the 1950s passing hot water thro a bathroom radiator...it has no place 70 years later. centralheatking...your towel rad install is nuts
in my opinion chking

Wasn’t saying it should, or is a good idea. But the op is sure that it is. I was saying it can be.

 

[Brambles]

Thanks for the photographs.

I would leave the towel rail as is for now. When you pipe in the heating system, the towel rail should be incorporated into that that system.

At the moment the towel rail is working as quite an effective bypass - it will only start to get really hot if you are consuming an enormous amount of domestic hot water. It is only on when you are calling for heat to DHW and is probably the path of greatest resistance , so will be the last emitter to heat up.

I would not use the plumber who designed and installed it again, if I were in your shoes.

 

[MajicalMaj]

Thanks for the photographs.

I would leave the towel rail as is for now. When you pipe in the heating system, the towel rail should be incorporated into that that system.

At the moment the towel rail is working as quite an effective bypass - it will only start to get really hot if you are consuming an enormous amount of domestic hot water. It is only on when you are calling for heat to DHW and is probably the path of greatest resistance , so will be the last emitter to heat up.

I would not use the plumber who designed and installed it again, if I were in your shoes.

no, never again! And to think he was on Checkatrade!

 

[Dan]

no, never again! And to think he was on Checkatrade!

Hahaha makes me laugh every time I hear checkatrade being associated with quality lol

It's a terrible service.

 

[king of pipes]

Sorry to say that's not how to pipe a towel rail it will always be airlocked . Kop

 

[centralheatking]

Sorry to say that's not how to pipe a towel rail it will always be airlocked . Kop

sanity from King of Pipes ...I was trying to be kind..its all wrong ..perhaps we should set up hall of shame...this one is def. a contender ...centralheatking

 

[MajicalMaj]

sanity from King of Pipes ...I was trying to be kind..its all wrong ..perhaps we should set up hall of shame...this one is def. a contender ...centralheatking

Thanks all for your feedback, we have arranged for our 'good' plumber to visit next month and look at the way this has been installed. Hopefully he will be able to change it so it works!

 

[ShaunCorbs]

is actual air coming out the towel rad or water?

 

[MajicalMaj]

is actual air coming out the towel rad or water?

It was initially a bit of each, but now its initially dirty water, then cleaner water gradually getting hotter.