Vokera boiler verses Worcester Bosch does modulation need to be below 7kw?

[coldboiler]

I am looking at getting a Worcester Bosch 34cdi but some people are saying it is too big for a 3 bed roomed house. My concern is I have a large bath and I want the water to run off quickly, at least 12 to 14 liters per minute. I have the flow rate to support this.

I have heard things about range setting the Worcester Bosch but do not understand this. I have been told it will only modulate down to about 7kw 4:1 ratio, so this may cost me more in bills. However there is a Vokera Linea 1 that modulates down to roughly 3kw or less 10:1 ration and I am told this will be more economic and also give me around 12 to 14 liters to fill the bath.

Is the modulation really that important?

Which do you think is the best boiler?

 

[southcoastboile]

When I spoke to valliant about modulating the heating size they recommended not setting it below 15kw anyway. I would stick with the Worcester if I was you.
not sure how to set up the kW output for heating on a Worcester but would stay away from the Vokera if I were you.

 

[Ermintrude]

Fit ideal vogue. 40kw.

1 quieter than both
2 better hot water performance than both
3 better construction
4longer better served warranty
5 think it's 7:1in super efficiency mode? Weather comp is easy
6 it's ideal !

 

[0304Driver]

Just dont have the Vokera!

 

[Ray Stafford]

I am looking at getting a Worcester Bosch 34cdi but some people are saying it is too big for a 3 bed roomed house. My concern is I have a large bath and I want the water to run off quickly, at least 12 to 14 liters per minute. I have the flow rate to support this.

I have heard things about range setting the Worcester Bosch but do not understand this. I have been told it will only modulate down to about 7kw 4:1 ratio, so this may cost me more in bills. However there is a Vokera Linea 1 that modulates down to roughly 3kw or less 10:1 ration and I am told this will be more economic and also give me around 12 to 14 liters to fill the bath.

Is the modulation really that important?

Which do you think is the best boiler?

You are over thinking this, all combi boilers are oversized on the heating load. The efficiency of your system depends on loads of other variable (mostly to do with the insulation, air changes and system design) and the modulation ratio of the boiler is trivially insignificant by comparison.

Comparing a Worcester CDi with a modern Vokera is like comparing a BMW with a Kia.

There is a reason why one has a very large market share, despite being significantly more expensive than the other.

 

[woodsy]

You are over thinking this, all combi boilers are oversized on the heating load. The efficiency of your system depends on loads of other variable (mostly to do with the insulation, air changes and system design) and the modulation ratio of the boiler is trivially insignificant by comparison.

Comparing a Worcester CDi with a modern Vokera is like comparing a BMW with a Kia.

There is a reason why one has a very large market share, despite being significantly more expensive than the other.

Whilst agreeing with the first part of your reply Ray, I disagree with the second part. Worcester Bosch have one of the best marketing depts. that any product bar apple has got. The product whilst decent is no better than many boilers. You are comparing the top of bosch's range with I suspect the reputation of vokeras bottom end (not the linea one). As I've said before, the quality of the installation is the most important thing.

 

[northcarr]

Fit ideal vogue. 40kw.

1 quieter than both
2 better hot water performance than both
3 better construction
4longer better served warranty
5 think it's 7:1in super efficiency mode? Weather comp is easy
6 it's ideal !

As already said a far better boiler ,wb are OK overall but they are a pain to work on and expensive .vokera poor build quality and don't even get me started on parts and customer services .

 

[Ray Stafford]

Whilst agreeing with the first part of your reply Ray, I disagree with the second part. Worcester Bosch have one of the best marketing depts. that any product bar apple has got. The product whilst decent is no better than many boilers. You are comparing the top of bosch's range with I suspect the reputation of vokeras bottom end (not the linea one). As I've said before, the quality of the installation is the most important thing.

I'm not so sure Woodsy. I appreciate that we are talking about the top of Worcesters range, but the OP specifically mentioned the CDi.

I have sold both boilers for more than 25 years. Going back the mid 1980s, to be honest, I think that Vokera had the better product. All combis were (relatively speaking) in their infancy then - at the time I think there was only Vokera, Vaillant, Worcester and Chaffoteaux making combis.

At that time, I would have rated Vaillant and Vokera as the best, followed by Worcester, with Chaff bringing up the rear, but at a significantly lower price point.

I have mentioned before on this forum that Vokera lost their way once when the founder sold out, and I they had a hell of a difficult time after the Buncefield explosion wrecked they UK HQ. However, even by that time, they had, in my opinion, prioritised other issues over technical excellence.

Worcester Bosch do have a great marketing department, but in a trade dominated environment, even the best in the world couldn't give a bad product top market share . It can, and does, make a good product dominant.

I understand from some of the guys that do a lot of repairs that they are hard to work on, and I can believe that this is a pain for engineers. However, it has very little impact on the householder. Think about how you choose your car or van. You might think about size, options, reliability stats, fuel consumption, or the reports of friends who have a particular make. Do you give a monkeys for whether the mechanics like working on it? I suspect not, and rightly so.

There are other great manufacturers - I would have a Baxi Duotec, a Vaillant Ecotec Plus or an Ideal (anything with a plus suffix or a vogue) in my house any time. But I wouldn't kid myself that a Vokera was on a par with a Worcester CDi.

But there you go - just my opinion. Others will be different.

 

[TBServices]

Fit ideal vogue. 40kw.

1 quieter than both
2 better hot water performance than both
3 better construction
4longer better served warranty
5 think it's 7:1in super efficiency mode? Weather comp is easy
6 it's ideal !

It's 9:1. And they really are super quiet, super high performance, super efficient.

Wouldn't touch vokera with a barge pole. Will be broken in year 6 if not before.

 

[woodsy]

I'm not so sure Woodsy. I appreciate that we are talking about the top of Worcesters range, but the OP specifically mentioned the CDi.

I have sold both boilers for more than 25 years. Going back the mid 1980s, to be honest, I think that Vokera had the better product. All combis were (relatively speaking) in their infancy then - at the time I think there was only Vokera, Vaillant, Worcester and Chaffoteaux making combis.

At that time, I would have rated Vaillant and Vokera as the best, followed by Worcester, with Chaff bringing up the rear, but at a significantly lower price point.

I have mentioned before on this forum that Vokera lost their way once when the founder sold out, and I they had a hell of a difficult time after the Buncefield explosion wrecked they UK HQ. However, even by that time, they had, in my opinion, prioritised other issues over technical excellence.

Worcester Bosch do have a great marketing department, but in a trade dominated environment, even the best in the world couldn't give a bad product top market share . It can, and does, make a good product dominant.

I understand from some of the guys that do a lot of repairs that they are hard to work on, and I can believe that this is a pain for engineers. However, it has very little impact on the householder. Think about how you choose your car or van. You might think about size, options, reliability stats, fuel consumption, or the reports of friends who have a particular make. Do you give a monkeys for whether the mechanics like working on it? I suspect not, and rightly so.

There are other great manufacturers - I would have a Baxi Duotec, a Vaillant Ecotec Plus or an Ideal (anything with a plus suffix or a vogue) in my house any time. But I wouldn't kid myself that a Vokera was on a par with a Worcester CDi.

But there you go - just my opinion. Others will be different.

Again Ray, agree with a lot of what you say but customers, generally wouldn't know a good boiler from a bad one but do know the Bosch name and the presumption that it will be a quality product. The boilers you name are good boilers but I can tell you that if I named most of them when quoting jobs, most customers eyes would just glaze over but you say Bosch and most of them wet their selves, and yet those named by you would be as good if not better options. I believe the Bosch are decent but not outstanding boilers . As you say though good having all the different views.

 

[magicno1]

One thing that nobody has mentioned!!!! It's all well and good having a 30- 40 KW combi if your incoming water mains is up to it? I work for one of the companies talked about and spend most of my time condemning under gassed boilers and customers asking why they get poor water flow. Don't spend good money without getting the basics right first out! Too many installers are retro fitting and new build boilers of high output and not providing adequate gas pipe work and not checking the water supplies! HTH

 

[Killy Bing]

One thing that nobody has mentioned!!!! It's all well and good having a 30- 40 KW combi if your incoming water mains is up to it? I work for one of the companies talked about and spend most of my time condemning under gassed boilers and customers asking why they get poor water flow. Don't spend good money without getting the basics right first out! Too many installers are retro fitting and new build boilers of high output and not providing adequate gas pipe work and not checking the water supplies! HTH

Wont find many if any like that on this forum sir!!

but i agree, water is worse than gas for not being correct i find

 

[northcarr]

I find a lot of under gassed boilers it does alarm me at times I had one a while ago 15mm from meter to 2 fires one range cooker and one 24kw combi .

 

[magicno1]

Just to give you an idea of what we face....... Last week in Bournemouth, a detached 5 bedroom house with a new 42kw combi fitted in the loft. The gas pipe was 22 from the meter over 25 meters away from the meter, various fittings on it and on full rate I had 12MB at the governor at the appliance. The mains was 15 mm off of old iron giving 8 litres a minute!!! How would you feel about finding that out after you have just paid out some 4K??? Crazy